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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New council website; "we use gender identity rather than gender reassignment"

74 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 02/04/2019 14:55

Our local councils amalgamated into one big 'super council' as of yesterday, so I thought I would wander about the website and found this under 'Our equality duties under the Equality Act':

"Protected characteristics

The Equality Act introduced the term 'protected characteristics to refer to groups that are protected under the Act, these are:

age
disability
gender reassignment*
marriage and civil partnership
race
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation

It is important to note that carers are also protected through association to any of the above 9 characteristics.

In addition, due to what we know about our local communities in Dorset we also consider under other socially excluded groups:

people who are rurally isolated
people on low incomes/in poverty
single parents
people with a military background and their families
  • Gender reassignment - in Dorset, we use gender identity rather than gender reassignment - ie how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same or different from their sex assigned at birth."

Are they allowed to change protected characteristics like this?!

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plattercake · 02/04/2019 17:21

Am absolutely fuming at this.

the leaflet also says Some transgendered people are easily able to adapt physically to the true gender; others live with the male or female facial
bone-structure and other characteristics which they inherited
from the years when their hormones were, so to speak,
building the wrong body. It is very important to focus on the
fact that someone is, truly, male or female, and to disregard any
unavoidable conflict they may be living with in respect of their
bone-structure

..the way the someone is truly male or female.. but not biology related. FFS.

Effing nonsense in every word, but saying TW have spent time "building the wrong body with the wrong hormones incomprehensibly seems to contradict the argument that TWAW so have no advantage in sport". So sympathy for strong male chins and adams apples intimidating women in the ladies, but oh its only superficial?

Please forgive any lack of coherence - painkillers, and anger.

CallingDannyBoy · 02/04/2019 18:31

‘their hormones were building the wrong body’. WTF?????

‘to disregard any unavoidable conflict they may be living with in respect of their --bone structure— penis.

CallingDannyBoy · 02/04/2019 18:32

Strike out fail but you get the gist

JackyHolyoake · 02/04/2019 19:48

MrsSnippyPants

They most definitely are not allowed to amend the protected characteristics prescribed in Equality Act 2010.

Beyond that, the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is restricted.

See this letter from some lawyers:

forwomen.scot/30/03/2019/tie-letter-legal-response/

ShouldBeCookingDinner · 02/04/2019 20:29

Tory country with a high percentage of elderly residents...not the sort of place that is going to tolerate mixed sex toilets and male carers for elderly females. This Council will be in no way progressive. I can't imagine how they were sucked into this.

And no, they can't change the law to suit themselves or state non-scientific nonsense as fact.

AprilSeventeen · 02/04/2019 23:33

This is breaking the law.
They missed out sex in the protected characteristics and self-id is not yet law.
Many people have challenged councils very successfully. Sometimes it has taken one letter. You need to tell them to amend across all their publications/sites.
If you need any help or a template letter, message me!
Oh, just noticed Jacky Holyoake said the same thing!
Another vote for
"They are talking shite"!

Candidpeel · 03/04/2019 01:18

They can say what they like in their equality policy but it doesn't change the law.

It is bad practice to not reflect the actual protected characteristics in their equality policy, because that is what they actually have responsibility for.

TurboTeddy · 03/04/2019 09:20

I just don't even know where to start with that 'fact' sheet.

I share your sentiments; so much misinformation contained in it. This is just one example:

^Changing one’s dress and social rôle so as to match one’s true gender is called “transitioning”. Transgendered people who are transitioning (beginning to live in their true gender) are fully protected in law against discrimination.
Example: an employer must accommodate the basic needs of an employee who declares that they are transitioning. The employer must implement the use of their new name, support them against inappropriate behaviour by others in their workplace, ensure that they have unrestricted access to lavatories and washrooms appropriate to their true gender, etc.^

How have they got away with this?

KingLooieCatz · 03/04/2019 09:38

Would the council not have their own legal advisers?

I'd be getting busy with Freedom of Information requests - who was consulted? What advice was sought and taken? Where is the impact assessment?

Outanabout · 03/04/2019 10:06

"Building the wrong body." What next, creationism? Confused

MrsSnippyPants · 03/04/2019 10:30

Having slept on this, I am even more furious if that is possible.
I gave my initial feedback just 'off the cuff' as it were, but I would like to follow this up properly.
Anyone point me in the right direction for doing a FOI request?
Also any useful template letters if anyone has had success with his issue in the past?
I have contacted Fair Play for Women to see if they have any useful advice.

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MockerstheFeManist · 03/04/2019 12:25

Complain to Dorset council, 'Page Not Found':

www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/your-council/complaints-compliments-and-comments/complaints-to-dorset-county-council.aspx

KingLooieCatz · 03/04/2019 12:27

In Scotland you just write to the organization and say you are requesting whatever information under Freedom of Information. Round here if someone writes and asks quoting FOI you have to log it and reply in timeframe and there is no requirement on the person requesting to quote the FOI Act correctly or use any particular format.

MockerstheFeManist · 03/04/2019 12:29

"Building The Wrong Body" brings this to mind:

mtsheridanplaza.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/MSP_Buildabear_FBS_18_V3.jpg

MrsSnippyPants · 03/04/2019 12:50

OK, I have figured out how to do a FOI request, now I need to provide "a detailed description of the information you want - for example, you might want all information held on a subject, or just a summary"

I want to find out why 'gender identity' is being used rather than the protected characteristic of gender reassignment in breach of the Equality Act.
Which outside organisations had input into this decision.
Who decided to link to an inaccurate 'factsheet' on transgender issues.
Whether an EIA has been done in order to discover the impact on women and single sex provisions that the decisions to recognise gender identity as a protected characteristic will have.

If anyone can suggest a better form of words or add to any of the questions I would appreciate it. I would use the Woman's Place model letter that challenges the use of gender instead of sex but this issue is slightly different.

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groundcontroltomontydon · 03/04/2019 13:33

I'd be interested to know what the legal basis is for exposing council tax payers to the extra liability that comes with unilaterally adopting an extra protected characteristic

ShouldBeCookingDinner · 03/04/2019 14:25

This Council has also demolished the public toilets in one town and is building cubicles that open directly onto the shopping area.

I expect these will be mixed sex. This is a town with a very high percentage of elderly residents. The Council is very Conservative, not the woke progressive sort at all.

Now they are enabling men to easily put hidden cameras into the toilets...toilet fetish is very popular and videos of women using the toilet sell incredibly well.

It also opens up the opportunity for perverts to jerk off over the toilet seats and toilet paper in the hope that the next user will be a woman. Leaving the toilet unflushed etc. Men have a habit of picking their nose and wiping it on toilet walls too.

Does anyone make stickers warning of hidden cameras?

Blooto · 03/04/2019 14:39

It might also be worth asking who the magical fairy is who 'assigns' sex at birth in Dorset, rather than just the normal practice of medical staff observing it.

MrsSnippyPants · 03/04/2019 14:58

Final (probably) draft that I intend to send first thing tomorrow:

Why is 'gender identity' being used rather than the protected characteristic of gender reassignment in breach of the Equality Act?

What is the legal basis for exposing council tax payers to the extra liability that comes with unilaterally adopting an extra protected characteristic? (Gender identity)

Which outside organisations had input into this decision? Given your adoption of 'gender identity' as a protected characteristic predominantly will affect the safety, dignity, and privacy of women and girls, did you consult with women's groups and if not, why not?

Has an EqIA been carried out in order to discover the impact on women and single sex provisions that the decisions to recognise gender identity as a protected characteristic will have? And if not why not?

Who decided, and how did they take the decision, to link to an inaccurate 'factsheet' on transgender issues? (For instance, it states that gender is identified at birth, which is wrong. SEX is OBSERVED at birth by medical staff). This document is riddled with such beliefs masquerading as facts.

As I am sure you are aware, Stonewall and others mentioned in that 'fact' sheet are lobbying for "gender reassignment" to be replaced with "gender identity" in legislation. It is wholly inappropriate for the council to support their lobbying. How do you square this with the need of local authorities to be politically impartial? (see 1.)

^1. “www.gov.uk/government/publications/recommended-code-of-practice-for-local-authority-publicity

2.6 The principle of objectivity requires local authority publicity to be politically impartial. The Publicity Code acknowledges that a council has to be able to explain its decisions and justify its policies, but this should not be done in a way that can be perceived as a political statement or a commentary on contentious areas of public policy.”^

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MrsSnippyPants · 03/04/2019 14:59

Italic fail

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ShouldBeCookingDinner · 03/04/2019 16:55

I'd be interested in any scientific research papers that support this statement together with an explanation of how and why it happens - "this has the result that their body did not develop before birth in such a way as to match their brain."

MockerstheFeManist · 03/04/2019 17:37

It is fairly basic anatomy that the brain is very much an organ of the body and not something seperate from it.

See also, 'The difference between brain and mind...'

ThePurportedDoctoress · 03/04/2019 19:20

Looks great Snippy. I have one small suggestion, change in bold:
What was the council's legal justification for using 'gender identity' rather than the protected characteristic of gender reassignment in breach of the Equality Act?

MrsSnippyPants · 03/04/2019 20:32

Thanks Doctoress, that is better wording.

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AverageAvenger · 03/04/2019 21:23

Leeds City Council (surprise surprise) is the same. They’ve replaced gender reassignment with transgender. They refuse to budge on it. Say they’re entitled to change it.

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