‘Gender neutral’ toilets - first experience

[Womaninnit]

This morning went to the cafe of a well known theatre in central London. Now the toilets are ‘gender neutral’. I’ve seen so many threads on this. I’ve used these toilets before at performances and god knows the queues are horrendous at a performance but today there was only me in there - but, boy I could smell male wee! I hadn’t thought about this small aspect before. Not very nice and instinctively felt I was in the wrong place.

@WeRiseUp yes I can see that. I wouldn't have liked it either. I can't imagine how the American ladies are coping with these, their cubicles are awful, the doors are not tall and there's a big gap underneath and literally gaps either sides of the door when it's closed so you can see through it. It would be even more uncomfortable to know these were unisex. I don't know how we got here so quickly. We must complain and loudly if there is a toilet arrangement that makes us feel uncomfortable, and vote with our feet.

I always ask now, before I've spent any money. In the last month I've booked a restaurant or pub for dinner for 6/8 people, three times, and it's the first question I ask before going ahead with the booking. I won't use mixed sex facilities and if I saw a man in the Ladies I'd complain and leave. We have a lot more power than we think by voting with our cash.

I was in a "women's " loo at a museum last week. A young woman was lurking and the reason why became apparent as a commentary emerged from the cubicle next to mine. "Mummy the poo's coming....nearly finished...one more plop....I can't reach the paper...Mummy can you wipe my bottom"
There was a gap of about six inches between the floor and the partition. I just thought how awful it would be if the ball waxer was in there.
Meanwhile DD teen took a wrong turn into a poorly labelled (the signs were to the side of the door and we didn't see them) men's loo at the university we were looking around and nearly fainted with embarrassment to be confronted with a man walking out. Recently she came running out of a (women's) loo saying she had heard heavy footsteps and thought there must be a man in there. She was appalled and stayed in her cubicle until it went quiet and she felt safe. I feel so sorry for teenagers and schoolchildren having gender neutral/mixed sex loos forced on them.

WE NEED THESE SPACES

On the plus side I have noted decent loos all marked male/female (or similar) at all the universities we have looked around. I assume anyone who feels like they are a woman just uses them anyway and doesn't expect to be challenged.

Sorry ladies. This is another retrogressive step that we are going to have to call out every time we see it, then complain / campaign / be a pain. These are OUR RIGHTS being eroded at the behest of men. Not on my watch.

As others have said they are mixed sex.
Its important to name the facilities for what they are.
Voyeurism is a male-pattern offence.
Mixed sex toilets & changing rooms do do enable girls & women to have the single sex spaces they need for sfety, privacy & dignity.
Providers will only change their provision if they are made aware of the need.

Mixed sex toilets & changing rooms do do enable girls & women to have the single sex spaces they need for sfety, privacy & dignity.

apologies, should read,
"Mixed sex toilets & changing rooms do not enable girls & women to have the single sex spaces they need for safety, privacy & dignity"

(I need more coffee!)

I really like the idea of asking about facilities before booking a table at a restaurant or tickets to a show. It would make it quite obvious to the proprietor that they are losing business as a result of mixed sex toilets.

what gives me the rage is this new trend of relabelling the accessible toilet as accesible and gender neutral. Lots of us need the extra space and special equipment in those toilets to be able to physically go to the toilet, and there aren't enough of them anyway without expanding their usage to people who don't necessarily have any physical access needs

We have gender neutral toilets at church. It's fine.
I don't think they are taking the piss.

Last month I had a right old dingdong with my sister, well she had a right old dingdong if the truth be told, because she brought her 11 yo DS into the womens’ toilets of a busy family chain pub. I objected to bringing him in. My DS is the same age and he goes into the mens’. She said she didn’t want him going in the mens’ by himself because she didn’t think it was safe. Half an hour earlier she’d let her 9 yo DD go to the toilet by herself. I wonder how comfortable mothers will be to let any of their DC go to the toilet by themselves if the toilets are mixed sex? I only have DS but I think I’d be far less worried about letting him go in the mens’ unaccompanied than I would a DD go to a mixed sex loo, and I think that discomfort would stretch way beyond 8, or even 11.

Yes I know they are mixed sex - hence the '''' - they were labelled as 'gender neutral'

Men's urine just smells stronger than women's which is why their toilets will always smell more rank. One of several reasons I don't want mixed public toilets.

Good idea about restaurant bookings and asking about the loos. I shall start doing that. My experience so far is that woke studenty and liberal areas of cities are the main culprits while the working class areas of my closest city and the surrounding countryside are unaffected by this tosh. This tells me much.

That matches with my experience. My (public sector) workplace recently introduced 'gender neutral' toilets in a certain part of the building, which used to have male and female toilets next to each other.

The remodelling involved taking the little signs off, putting a plate of tampons into each, and removing the urinals. I have never seen a man in the old 'female' toilet, and have been told by colleagues that they go to other floors rather than risk upsetting a woman/feeling like a pervert. The sex segregated toilets have queues, and the 'neutral' ones are empty.

The whole thing is ridiculous, half-arsed virtue signalling because individual cubicals are too pricey.

Sorry, that was @marmello.

We have gender neutral loos at work. At first I thought it would be fine.

But 99% of the time there is piss on the floor so I can't get to the loo without standing in it. The seat is up, there's piss on the rim and piss running all the way down the front of the loo in the outside.

Even if I wipe the seat if I sit down I get someone else's wee on the back of my legs. It's vile. So now I have to either hover and then sometimes wee on the seat/floor/back of my leg myself or wipe loads of wee off the front of the toilet. And I still get to stand in it! Joy.

Nico that sounds awful, have you complained?

I haven't. There's women specific loos a bit further away and I go and use those now.

We have mixed sex toilets at work (12 staff) but that is because about 80% of staff women and only 2 totally enclosed rooms with just toilets and sinks.

I wholeheartedly concur with all the sound arguments GC feminists make against the colonisation of female-only spaces, but it pisses me off that we have to make ANY case about this.

I don’t want them there because i fear men. I don’t fear all men in all contexts, but context is hugely significant.

The presence of humans who my biological programming tells me are men in disguise, in places where I or other women and children are vulnerable, ignites a visceral, instinctual gut reaction that is a response to a felt sense of danger.

They may mean no harm but that is not for me to try to evaluate. I have a right to be protected from fear, from hyper-vigilance, in spaces where I am vulnerable.

Why are we constantly being told to “shut up and listen” and to blindly accept claims like “transwomen are women”, but no one seems to be able to accept that biological women only want to share their private spaces with other biological women.

We have already fought this fight and shouldn’t need to justify why our rights should be maintained.

We have deep historical, psychological, evolutionary and biological instincts to protect ourselves and our children from men. I truly believe most of this is deeper than consciousness.

Men who think they are women will never be able to understand this because they are not biological women. They just have to accept that.

I have yet to see transgender advocates make a compelling case for why they should be allowed into women’s spaces. All I hear is that they feel vulnerable being with other males in private, male-only spaces because of the way they choose to dress and groom themselves, which in some cases approximates what some females might wear.

I’m no scientist but even I can see that it would be fairly easy to test women’s recognition and physiological responses to men - irrespective of how the men are dressed.

I’m definitely not transphobic. I have a trans man in my immediate circle of friends and another at work who I consider a close work buddy. I do not fear these trans men. I’m not afraid if I see a man dressed as a woman in public places. I’m all about live and let live. I know it’s a bit dodgy for a GC feminist, but I enjoy a good drag queen act. They don’t scare me unless they invite me on stage.

What scares me is men. And men in disguise make me very uncomfortable when they turn up in places they don’t belong.

Is there a word for ‘fear of men’? I have that.

Yes to the PP about children in loos. And their chat. And a place for me to
be in a safe space.

The world has gone mad.

Men who think they are women will never be able to understand this because they are not biological women. They just have to accept that.

@Jaxiejaks Well said. I'm generally a fearless person but I have travelled a lot since I was 19 years old, a lot of the time on my own and in "dangerous" countries in South America and Asia. That has put my guard up in a way that a man, a transwoman, can never ever understand. I've been physically grabbed, breast and crotch, while simply walking down a crowded street in Colombia. The only thing that EVER protected me in these travels was having a male companion. The moment I was with a man, whether or not he was my partner, I felt safe. It's a visceral reaction we women have, and the fact that many transwomen can't see that and insist we are wrong to have it is actual proof that they aren't really women. A real woman automatically knows this, and respects it, and supports other women. A real woman would not bully us into forcing us to move aside for male bodies.

Me too Lamaha! I’ve travelled alone in all sorts of places. I consider myself a brave woman in lots of ways. I hate to admit a fear of men or pretty much anything, but for me it goes deeper than rational thought. It’s a protective/survival instinct and it has protected me many times. Now we are being asked to disavow all our own instincts to protect the feelings of others.

Dh works in various places all over the country. In one he says it is a really uncomfortable experience and he feels awful whenever he is going into the toilet and a woman is coming out.
In another the lay out of the gender neutral toilet means there are two sides within the same room. Dh went to the loo and when in there was told very politely he was going to the wrong side. The people who work there have sex segregated the gender neutral toilets and point any visitors to the 'right side'. They have devised their own form of sex segregation within the gender neutral space. Shows how uncomfortable people are with it.

My niece just told me that her school has one of these toilets. She says no one wants to use it and they get in trouble for being late to lesson because the have to walk all the way to another building to use the girls toilet. It is not like there is a high demand for this toilet and I think it is really unfair to make teenage girls face walking into a toilet that could contain a group of boys. What if she has her period? She is already uncomfortable around boys and they tease and bully her because she is one of the only mixed race girls in school. A mixed bathroom in school just seems like a perfect place to bully people when the are at their most vulnerable.

We have them at one of the local cinema’s. I love them. All fully self-contained with sinks. It hasn’t cut down on the size of the ladies queue though as obviously there are now less toilets in this configuration than there were when they were separate men’s and women’s. BUT, men now have to queue too! That never happened before, so they hate it. Can’t say I’ve ever felt unsafe as every time I’ve had to use them there has been a queue. Funnily, I’ve never found one left dirty, maybe just luck?