School are marking trans day of visibility and have sent out link to stonewall article

[2stepsonthewater]

(I've name changed for obvious reasons but I've been on MN ages, lurk on feminism pages)
DS' school have sent an email to say they will be marking trans day of visibility with a session on respect and using correct pronouns. It's on Monday so I don't have much time to email them with my concerns but am definitely going to. They've included a link to 'the truth about trans' on the stonewall website, which just made me utterly furious, it's so patronising and misleading. I'm not going to focus too much on the link, in my email, but keep it brief and say that I am happy for my child to learn about something but not for them to be indoctrinated and that I expect it to be a discussion that encourages debate and free thinking, not being dictated to about what they must believe.
Any other schools doing this? Any thoughts? Help!

Yes I suppose I could send them a link to it. Then I won't seem like a lone nutter!

every day is trans day of visibility

How old is your DS, has his school become a Stonewall Champion school?

I'll try to find a recent thread for you as it may have useful advice one sec...

session on respect and using correct pronouns

Ha. Respect. For an ideology that tells me I'm either not a woman, or if I am, it's because I like my place in society. Fuck that. I'll be polite, just like I am with other religious stuff, but there are lines that I will not cross.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3526925-opting-out-of-trans-and-lgb-lessons

Thanks OhhHolyJesus, I will check that thread.
He's in Y9. Not sure about stonewall champions, I'll see if it's on the school website.

I think you are taking the correct approach, state that simple principle and tell them why you think its wrong.

There is nothing wrong with learning about transwomen

There is everything wrong with kids being told transwomen are women

I would go through the Stonewall stuff using that approach, noting where the line has been crossed.

Keep it simple and if you get the chance, ask who ever is organizing this if they really believe transwomen are women and if its the sort of thing you should be telling kids.

I think it's being delivered in tutor time, so I feel a bit sorry for the teachers that have to present it, tbh!
I'd like to ask, does the head of biology really believe that we are assigned a sex at birth?

I would point out the stats regarding trans people in the UK, they are very safe. I would also point out The Samaritan guidelines regarding the promotion of suicide stats and advise them to have a care.

You could send them the link to the Stonewall petition that Johnny Best set up. The text explains very clearly the problems with uncritical adoption of 'gender identity' ideology and why many gay and lesbian people disagree with Stonewall's current agenda. It has over 8500 signatures.

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

session on respect and using correct pronouns

Ha. Respect. For an ideology that tells me I'm either not a woman, or if I am, it's because I like my place in society. Fuck that. I'll be polite, just like I am with other religious stuff, but there are lines that I will not cross.

^ ^^ What she said.

‘Pronouns’ are compelled speech/an impingement on free speech.

Irish Gay Cake ruling established you cannot compel speech. Freedom of speech, Belief and expression are all covered under the Human Rights Act.

They can and should teach general respect and kindness but they cannot indoctrinate children into an ideology like this and teach them that their speech can be compelled, that’s totalitarian.

I thought what with the legal furore over deadnaming and correctly-sexing that trans people wanted their transness to be invisible, not visible?

Thanks Repeal
I’ll remember that if they try to require us put pronouns on auto signatures at work.

Wow Chatty, is that likely?

OK as usual on these topics, IF it was a simple lesson on 'some people are trans and we should accept how they dress and stuff and not bully them' then great. But it seems a lesson in 'teaching' kids how to speak and that their eyes are basically wrong in cases of trans people. As such, I would keep my child off that day, and explain why, theres not really enough time to get a reply on it as I doubt teachers will want to spend their weekends dealing with parents complaints, but I kept my (at the time) 5 year old off on one of the ridiculous mermaids/allsorts type days not long back and would do the same here, even if it is only for half an hour or whatever. Maybe send them in half day.

The Irish Gay Cake ruling stated that Freedom of expression, as guaranteed by article 10 of the European convention on human rights, includes the right “not to express an opinion which one does not hold”

Ereshkigal Not heard it suggested by my own employer.

But I heard a woke person working in the public sector say some time ago that they had been advised by lawyers that pronouns should be put on autosignatures for workplaces to be inclusive.

This could be bullshit (this person maybe wanted to justify their own views by referring to an imaginary legal view),
or could be misunderstanding of what a lawyer had actually said, or could be a correct understanding of what was a political suggestion or encouragement being pushed by TRA lobbyists (ie not advised as a legal requirement and not spoken by a lawyer. )

Or it might be true and correct. Fairly sure I’ve seen a few posts on here of people saying their workplace encourages pronouns on auto signatures.

My point about the NI gay cake case is just that if it comes up either as an ‘encouragement’ or is presented as a requirement at work then at least I would have some legal back up to object.

I think if people choose voluntarily to add their pronouns at work then that’s up to them, but it’s objectionable for employers to suggest, ask, or require this, or if they treated employees less favourably for not adding their pronouns (or for objecting to being asked to do it.)

Personally I feel being made to add my pronouns in a professional context would be compelled speech and a compelled show of political allegiance plus an invasion of privacy.

At the time this was said, I felt it was being voiced as a bit of a test to see what the reaction was, ie to spot the ‘TERFs’.

Well I sent my email last night outlining my concerns. I don't want to be too specific here in case someone from the school sees this and recognises me. I got a reply today which was quite reasonable, reassuring me that debate is encouraged and thanking me for the trans gender trend link. So I feel that I have at least made my point and hopefully encouraged another point of view to be considered. I'm not totally happy that the session is focused on how to use pronouns, but hey ho.

But I heard a woke person working in the public sector say some time ago that they had been advised by lawyers that pronouns should be put on autosignatures for workplaces to be inclusive.

"This could be bullshit (this person maybe wanted to justify their own views by referring to an imaginary legal view),
or could be misunderstanding of what a lawyer had actually said, or could be a correct understanding of what was a political suggestion or encouragement being pushed by TRA lobbyists (ie not advised as a legal requirement and not spoken by a lawyer. )"

Can I suggest another explanation? Even in the current boom, there are still more employment lawyers than jobs for them to do. Solicitors' firms encourage their staff to find new problems that their client need them to solve.
So I think the most obvious answer is that some law firm had offered to do an "audit" or some such thing and needed to come up with stuff. Perhaps they tendered for the work and wanted to distinguish themselves from their competitors.

On a cheerful note, one thing the lawyers on this board could do is look for opportunities to post updates on hard-fought (i.e. ££££££) cases on the conflict of rights. Everyone will follow suit, I bet you...