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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New to feminism

25 replies

Underthegreenwood · 22/03/2019 12:42

As in I want to be truly informed about the arguments and issues, coming from a place that has always naturally been a feminist stance but not something I've explored deeply. I find myself increasingly angry about issues and want to know how to arm myself with knowledge. Any suggested reading etc would be very welcome, thank you

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SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/03/2019 12:43

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Underthegreenwood · 22/03/2019 12:48

Thank you. It is that topic which has highlighted my feelings on the subject so I will have a read. I am also looking for the step behind this which is basic arguments and philosophy of feminism to inform the specific topics if that makes sense?

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BertrandRussell · 22/03/2019 12:49

Any specific questions you’d like to ask?

MagicMix · 22/03/2019 12:50

www.feministcurrent.com

Try Backlash by Susan Faludi. I found it really eye-opening on a lot of feminist issues - although it is mainly focused on US culture and law you can see the issues and transfer them to other contexts.

Underthegreenwood · 22/03/2019 12:52

I am just finding it hard to know where to go for resources to learn the basics, I think this board is amazing but a lot of the conversations talk about things I don't understand the background or context of. I would like to be able to contribute

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Underthegreenwood · 22/03/2019 12:52

Thanks both posters for the links

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SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/03/2019 13:00

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BertrandRussell · 22/03/2019 13:19

“I am just finding it hard to know where to go for resources to learn the basics, I think this board is amazing but a lot of the conversations talk about things I don't understand the background or context of. I would like to be able to contribute”

Just contribute! You don’t need the academic stuff! Ask questions as you go.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 22/03/2019 13:23

OP I lurked around this particular board for aaaaages before having the balls to post and I'm so glad I did it. The knowledge, experience and wisdom of many here is incredible (I have to say I mainly contribute poorly written, incoherent "thinking out loud" babble. Someone has to Wink).

I have learned so much from others here.
On the flip side I have also turned into a very angry person!

Welcome. And keep posting Smile

SocFem19 · 22/03/2019 13:48

Welcome! There's lots of different kinds of feminist texts and feminisms, different ways you could slice your philosophy, but in my mind feminism is more of a solidarity movement against sexism and the many ways that plays out in women's lives. It isn't a philosophy-down approach, but stems from women's real lives and common experiences and philosophoes only grow out of this. Hang around, read, ask questions, listen to the experiences of other women, notice where you have had similar experiences with sexism, etc. That's a good a place as any to start I think. Even an introduction to feminism book might be helpful for the basics of where women have come from and what battles have been fought in the past. There are lots of those little 'intro to...' books and there are feminism ones.

CaptainMarvelBunting · 22/03/2019 14:02

I'm a big fan of the grass roots approach. I'm not averse to academic texts and an intellectual approach, but it's emphatically not a pre-requisite to getting involved.
If you're a woman, and you put the rights and protections of women and girls at the centre of your approach to politics and all of the other things in our society that impact others, then you should know that feminism is for you.
There are bookish, studious women, there are hands on, get on the streets activist women, there are women who can use their vote, voice and time to make small, significant differences - and feminism includes us all.Smile

BertrandRussell · 22/03/2019 14:35

“I'm a big fan of the grass roots approach. I'm not averse to academic texts and an intellectual approach, but it's emphatically not a pre-requisite to getting involved.“

Absolutely. I think the theoretical stuff comes after the grass roots. If at all- it isn’t for everybody.

CaptainMarvelBunting · 22/03/2019 15:00

Well, the funny thing is, I've always been an academic sort, but my 'in' to feminist thought and activism wasn't through reading feminists, though I've started to do that since and been helped enormously - it was through 40 years experience as a woman and realizing that the whole system has been stacked against me and other women and girls from the start.

Once I saw it, and possibly once I was past the bloom of youth, I couldn't sit back and accept it.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/03/2019 15:52

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CaptainMarvelBunting · 22/03/2019 17:23

That's true. I wasn't criticizing at all. Just didn't want the OP feeling that it was absolutely necessary to have a thorough background in the theory side of things to be able to join in.

I'm currently reading Invisible Women by Caroline Crisco Perez. It's exceptionally good for seeing how all pervasive male-as-default bias is in human culture.

Underthegreenwood · 22/03/2019 18:21

Thank you all so much! I am quite academic so that feels logical to me, getting to grips with the main texts in a discipline so I know my stuff. But I also take on board it perhaps can't be rushed like that. I will follow up some of the links and books but will continue to read and explore this board, and contribute Smile

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Underthegreenwood · 22/03/2019 18:25

CaptainMarvelBunting what you say resonates with me, it's my realisation that everything is stacked against women that infuriates me

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Manderleyagain · 22/03/2019 18:43

Maybe get an introduction to feminism? Deborah Cameron, feminism: ideas in profile looks good, but there will be others. Then you can follow the reading from there if you like the theory side of things.

stumbledin · 23/03/2019 00:53

Hi Underthegreenwood

I think you being angry is the main starting point! And not sure what knowledge would be more useful to you than you thinking about the reasons you are angry. And as yet I dont think there is a book that has been written that explains how for every small gain we make, society gradually erases it.

For instance in the early days of women's liberation (which was more influenced by hippy alternative culture than socialism or academia) was an idea that "equality" would result in (dont laugh) everyone working part time so that adults in whatever relationship would share child care and domestic duties. But this idealistic dream was manipulated by capitalism to the extent that women entering the work force created the opportunity to increase the cost of housing and basic living costs so that one full time or two part time wages could not sustain a household! Sold as "having it all" it just meant women ended up with the double burden of paid and unpaid work.

I dont know if you are in London, but if you are or can get to London, a visit to the Feminist Library would probably be very interesting as you could then access the published material that was probably more influential than actual books, eg newsletters and self/group published magazines. ie a pre digital version of the feminist discussions that happen on mumsnet, facebook and networks.

If you were interested in following through how feminists ideas have developed and changed, you could read (if you haven't already) the books that many women refer to as the ones that changed / informed them. Off the top of my head and not saying this is a complete list here are some of the titles post WWII (primarily white, western feminism).

The Second Sex is said to be the start of second wave feminism.

The Feminine Mystique which reflected the impact of women being sent back into the home having experineced relative freedom during WWII, creating the problem with no name.

The big surge in what became women's liberation ideas was primarily through pamphlets and conference papers which via snail mail, were exchanged across the atlantic. This is an example www.jofreeman.com/joreen/bitch.htm

The Dialectic of Sex teoriaevolutiva.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/firestone-shulamith-dialectic-sex-case-feminist-revolution.pdf

In the UK more socialist feminist books got published and may not have influenced local women's groups and activists but in terms of how political policy and funding of women's groups happened was influential. Sheila Rowbotham was (is) one of these www.bl.uk/people/sheila-rowbotham

Some women have found novels to be their turning point. For me it was the Edible Woman which I dont think Margaret Atwood intended as a feminist text and I am not sure whether the world it reflects is still the same today. Other women found the Women's Room (Marylin French) the book that changed them for its accurate portrayal of male violence.

Sorry - not sure if this is in anyway helpful, but also I have just seen the time and must stop.

Am happy to come back with some other titles, although I am sure other mumsnetters can add to your reading list.

Smile
Underthegreenwood · 25/03/2019 06:17

Wonderful stumbledin that gives me a bit of structure which is exactly what I was looking for.

I appreciate all the replies, thanks

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stumbledin · 25/03/2019 18:57

Hi Underthegreenwood

Glad it was helpful. And realise there are huge caps eg not mentioning Andrea Dworkin.

But also realised although I said I would come back I had sort of got myself to the 80s / 90s which saw the start of 3rd Wave Feminism.

This was hugely hyped up by the media, but had few roots in grass roots activism. But because of the hype young women at that time were influenced by it. Unfortunately it was heavily influenced by what were called Gender Studies (which replace Women's Studies), and was effectively part of the backlash against women's autonomous organising and analysis, inspired more by queer politics than feminist ones. ie rather than studies or books being based on women's experiences they became studies and books responding to / criticising 2nd wave feminism. Prior to that arguements would have been about socialist feminism vs radical feminism, but both shared the fact of being based on women's experience.

So not sure I can give you an over view of books from that time as they did seem like an attack on women's liberation.

But it is an important clash of political direction as it was out of this that the whole "choosing a gender identity" concept started to grow as opposed to women's liberationist politics which were / are based on the concept of the shared experience of discrimination that women face from birth just because of the sex we are born. ie it isn't a "choice" it is a lived reality.

hdh747 · 25/03/2019 19:02

Just bookmarking, need to do some more reading. Smile
Thank you to all who suggested things.

Justhadathought · 25/03/2019 19:13

As in I want to be truly informed about the arguments and issues, coming from a place that has always naturally been a feminist stance but not something I've explored deeply. I find myself increasingly angry about issues and want to know how to arm myself with knowledge. Any suggested reading etc would be very welcome, thank you

Knowledge and viewpoints arise through lived experience. Reading is a great way to make yourself more articulate, in general., though. I'm not sure you really need theory, as such.

Justhadathought · 25/03/2019 19:16

I like biographies and auto-biographies: Historical; literary; rock; contemporary.....Reading other women's stories is very rewarding and teaches you much about the paths and lives that other women have led, and the hurdles they've been up against.

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