Word getting out

[TheSteveMilliband]

I've just had a chat with a colleague who I'd suspected was "woke" about trans issues. He initially was non comittal and talked about the sex "spectrum". Bit the bullet and said I disagreed and woah! Once he knew I was critical he was absolutely 100% in agreement. Really need to talk more to colleagues, friends - everyone about this, easy to forget after an hr or two on twitter that most people agree. On a bit of a high as sometimes it can feel like we are a few fish swimming upstream. The reality is that many if not most people agree.

Well done you. In real life most people, given the space and privacy to be honest, are thinking wtf in my experience.

I don't know, I discussed with my most "TRA" friend and ended up getting hung up on. What annoyed me so much was when I was trying to discuss why I feel so strongly about this and asked her if she'd ever been sexually assaulted and she said "well yeah but it's just lads, lads, lads" as if it was nothing.

She thinks she's a feminist but clearly hadn't changed since our teenage years when she told me to stop complaining about some guy fingering me without my consent because that's just what happens on a night out!! She sees and understands the safety concerns women have but chooses to priorities the feelings of men and acts like she's the progressive one and I'm the bigot who will eventually realise she's "on the wrong side of history".

It's just misogyny pure and simple. I did not feel good after that conversation.

I'm going to keep talking about it though. Maybe just not to her unless she brings it up first.

Wel done!

We need a secret handshake.

It's all so secret. Yesterday I read a meme on FB about LGBT in schools and the majority of the posters on the thread were like Yay!!! But one person said he was beginning to feel uncomfortable, gave his reasons, and apologised if he'd offended anybody. And they all jumped on him to "correct" him. He apologised again. I liked his comment (along with two others) but said nothing. But I had such a bad conscience that this morning I went back, dug up his comment, sent him a friend request, and a message of support as well as a bit of info about the T part of those lessons.
I feel that every single person who comes out with doubts needs support. That's how this works: one person at a time.

I spoke to a teacher yesterday about one of our students. I spoke about my fears that children are being lied to, that they think you can change sex with a few operations. The other teacher said she was really glad to hear my comments as she didn't like to say her opinions without knowing how others feel.

Standard secondary school, at least 4 girls are trans. I don't know what advice they are getting, we have had no training/advice on the matter.

Pretty much no adult I know really thinks TWAW. A few teens who think it's not very kind, though they are worried about sport and think it's ridiculous to have to remember pronouns amongst those who pick something not obvious or common.

I was brave yesterday and spoke to my physio about it. She’s Australian and totally agreed, talked about most basic rights being upheld, safeguarding etc the idiocy of allowing any man into female spaces. It was really good!

Was walking through my small town yesterday - two women walking behind me were talking about the "misgendered so I want money from Southern rail" case. They were quite cross to say the least, one saying how she'd had to turn off the TV she was so annoyed.

The TRAs are peaking the nation.

We need a secret handshake

hah! yes

I've discussed this with my teenage daughter. She said that she hadn't done any reading around this subject and just assumed that TWAW etc because that's what she's been told. She's chatted with her friends about it (all late teens) and said 'Mum, they're gender critical like you, I'm so surprised"
The world is quietly gender critical, whilst politely obeying the use of pronouns etc..

I've spoken to several old friends in the past week - only one aware of how bad it was getting, all horrified and adamant TWATW.

We do need to keep talking to get rid of the 'all nice people think this way' perception.

A friend of mine is a Head of Year/teacher and she is furiously supportive of the things i said and do. But she simply cannot say so publicly.

Another friend has thanked me for opening her eyes to the entire issue.

Another friend has peaked several and/or been the safe space for others to out themselves as GC.

There is a public toilet where I work. Last week there was a fella in there, granted he wasn’t wearing a dress but you know, a bloke still.
All the people I have mentioned this to in passing without fail have rolled their eyes and said silly sod, wearing a dress does not make you a woman. These are everyday working class people, the majority women.
It’s heartening to know this is what the majority of people think in real life.

I would discuss this with people but it never crops up in any of my conversations and I feel weird about mentioning it a propos of nothing.

lottiebel123

I’ve had many conversations with my daughter like that and her friends and her are very strongly GC, way before trans issues really. My DD has always had comments about ‘dressing like a boy’ and is autistic.

I think there is a growing undercurrent of anger at how the trans rights movement has stifled discussion, threatened and manipulated women, and attempted to overturn the rights of women and girls.

It's been a (very) slow wakening for me; it's a complex topic and not always one with very easy, clearcut answers. But people see lines being crossed. Once one questions tenets like 'TWAW', the whole premise shows itself as ridiculous. Gradually, the ridiculousness of it starts to show itself as deliberate gaslighting.

Once seen in that light, the actions of, say Morgane Oger campaigning to shut down a rape crisis centre, or Katie Dolatowski attacking girls in toilets and then being sent to a women's shelter, or Aimee Challenor protecting her rapist father, or Jess Bradley's history of flashing and more, or Karen White raping women prisoners, etc etc - it starts to make a very ugly picture of a mens' rights movement with sinister undercurrents, that has insinuated itself into the LGB rights movement and infiltrated policy at every level.

I'm feeling very, very sorry for the many victims of this ideology: Trans people who suffer gender dysphoria must have a really difficult time and all this won't help them. The kids subjected to untested and potentially dangerous medication. Those who undergo unnecessary surgery. Those who are told their mental health issues will be solved by magically changing sex.

And of course, the women who have been fighting this for years and being dismissed, threatened, doxxed, punched, insulted, stalked, intimidated, slurred and mocked. I take my hat off to you.

We've been sold a crock.

Really need to talk

Everyone does, it's not wrong or a taboo subject, it is important.

I was shocked when rather than tar and feather me, several left wing, right on, guys on facebook actually supported me on a gender critical post.
They even pm me to support.

Everyone is terrified of calling this shit out.

In real life I've not met anyone yet who thinks transing kids or letting biological men into women's sport, is a good idea. I tend to have mainly left-wing friends too.

I've spoken to loads of teachers about it. They are all too afraid to say what we all think.

Keep pulling it's getting through

Agreed, Scrimshaw, but just a note for accuracy that KW was convicted of rapes that occurred outside prison, and of sexual assaults inside the women's prison.

DodoPatrol, thank you, my mistake.

Thanks for putting up with my pedantry - but I've seen the scoffing happen when details can be dismissed -- 'They don't even know what they're talking about, nobody was raped in a female prison!'

Nono, I agree, accuracy is very important. This pedant salutes you. :)

I tend to keep my thoughts to myself because where I live you can be figuratively tarred and feathered for expressing any dissension from the party line. The other day though in the breakroom, I overheard two coworkers discussing the subject of our company possibly installing gender neutral bathrooms, neither appeared particularly comfortable with the idea. Then I heard one of them trotting out the increased risk of suicide patter.

It came pouring out before I could stop myself. “Bullfuckingshit, that’s the line they’re feeding vulnerable, anxious parents to get them on board with fast-tracking their kids into transdom. It’s complete emotional blackmail bullshit!”

Fortunately for me, neither coworker is particularly ‘woke’, they’re nice people who just don’t know, and they let me talk and tell them a few things they hadn’t thought of. Resulted in me sending them a link to the Fair Play for Women suicide myths page, I’m hoping from there they’ll dip a bit deeper into the FPFW site. Baby steps.

Agreed it's small steps. People are so frightened and intimidated but there's a huge relief when they realise it's OK to speak out about protecting children and maintain women's sport.