Are there biological roots in the way MTF trans behave?

[PrincessPlummy]

I've spent much of the past couple of days reading about the behaviour of 'MTF' trans people. I was wondering how many people wonder if there is a biological root to some their behaviour (i.e. fetishistic, aggressive event to the point of violence, competitive with women). Apparently many/most have little to no medical intervention. I don't believe in pink or blue brains, but surely hormones influence behaviour somewhat - some of the behaviour of the more 'AGP' camp seems almost hyper-masculine to me?

I think it's normal to wonder, but speculation is somewhat pointless without well designed studies to separate out nature/nurture variables.

In the meantime, efforts focussed upon encouraging men to act like decent human beings seem to be the best option. We can control 'nurture' but we aren't doing anywhere near a good enough job of trying.

"fetishistic, aggressive even to the point of violence, competitive with women"
All behavioural. I can see why you'd think it might be hormone-influenced, but in my opinion it's just as likely (more likely, even) to have been influenced by watching too much porn for too many years.

Hmm i'm sure you're right. I may be getting a skewed view, but there does seem to an implication that as a group they display more concerning male pattern behaviour than just bog standard men. I think I'd definitely be more afraid to share a toilet with an AGP man that an everyday-suit wearing man (not that I want to be in an enclosed space with either, but it seems scary that the former now appear to have the legal right to do so!)

I think it's just another variation of male aggression.

A lot of it is narcissistic rage at people not doing what they want them to. This ideology claims to be about freedom, but only for the people identifying as trans. They don't want women to have freedom, as a rule. A lot of it is about control.

I've seen FTM trans people display just as much of this rage, but the difference is that they don't have as much power.

Ereshkigal oh really? having looked at terms like way 'Terf' is used etc it seems mainly MTF who say violent threats (also related to sexual crimes). AGP seems to be MTF only too, but I'm new to this. Are there similar dimensions to FTM as a group?

They tend to support whatever MTF trans people want. So will often go after women for them. They rarely challenge men.

But yes, the really awful tweets about torturing and raping and killing women they disagree with tend to come from male people.

NATALT, obviously.

NATALT?

Not All Trans Are Like That, like NAMALT (Not All Men etc)

As I understand it there is no biological basis for the idiosyncratic behaviour of the "trans community". Identical twin studies indicate this, with a likelihood of both twins being "trans" lower than, for example, those twins exhibiting anorexia.

In any case the "trans community" should be very careful what they wish for. If there is a genetic marker for this condition then it could be tested for pre-natally, and, given we all believe in a woman's right to choose, it could lead to unintended consequences.

Any genetic marker for gender dysphoria would quite possibly rule huge swathes of the trans population out.

Right what I'm discussing is not dysphoric transsexuals but those with the fetish AGP, heterosexual men who are aroused by wearing women's clothes. They are generally the most aggressive towards women and may wish to enter women's spaces for fetishistic reasons

There is limited evidence that there are some brain structure similarities between women and homosexual MTF trans people. However when you control for sexuality this disappears. When the question of sexual orientation is dealt with, similarities between heterosexual MTF trans and women haven't been found. However they were different from men who weren't trans in an area of the brain relating to body self perception.

This was a pretty nasty attack by three TW's on a man in London. Particularly violent and persistent.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6370171/Three-transgender-women-mother-four-22-batter-man-central-London-station.html

PrincessPlummy I see what you mean.
I doubt it's anything biological. More to do with selfishness, self-obsession, narcissism, and mental illness.

Ereshkigal - I think some of those studies you refer to had a small number of participants, no control group, and those who participated were already on hormone treatments.

So limited and scientifically dubious.

Andy how awful

I don't want to generalise about any group but I have read so so so many examples of male trans people being violent/sexually abusive just today, combined with the knowledge of AGP, its really making me concerned. I think there's more going on here than just men wanting to be women. It seems more sinister than that. (I may just be paranoid haha)

PrincessPlummy, Yes I'm convinced that there is a biological root to explain the behaviour of many trans people for 3 reasons;

The number of MTF trans people that report being on the autistic spectrum is staggeringly high. That surely is a biological difference and explains the lack of empathy and understanding many have towards other groups. But obviously NAAPALT.

MTF trans people are men so biologically different to women. Even Gina Rippons in the book mentioned above does not dispute the role of biology in observed sex differences. But obviously NAMALT

Finally and only anecdotally, many effeminate men who are either gay or trans do seem to be particularly sensitive and fly off the handle over the slightest thing. BUT obviously NAGorTWALT.

Interesting info Thingybob. But the thing is the trans meltdowns seem very... masculine? Like the MTF person in the US who was abusing the shop people for calling them Sir. when they said 'let's take it outside' it all seemed like a hyper-masculine macho meltdown (ironically considering I assume femininity is their aim...)

See I don't see it as masculine as most men's men would never behave that way.

I see it more as hormonal female behaviour (we would just scream a bit before dissolving into tears) but coming from a biologically male body.