Is misgendering worse than calling someone Mrs?

[Funkaccino]

Not to deride anyone who chooses to use the title, but I dont believe it should be the default for a married woman. But I am on most occasions called Mrs Dhssurname by people who haven't bothered to ask if I use Dhs surname or Mrs.

Mrs to me, is terribly sexist. Implies ownership and that my marital status is relevant as a woman but not to men.

Ms has been around for decades but people still wont use it as standard in this country.

How the fuck are we at a place where I can go to be questioned for accurately assuming someone's sex or deadnaming but not for misnaming and announcing me as OfDh.

Because of several of the rules of misogyny. Basically what men want is far more important than what any woman wants.

It doesn't matter if you, as the little woman, are offended. You are insignificant and should just put up and shut up
It annoys me as well OP.

Misgendering is worse than EVERYTHING, haven’t you got the memo yet?

I recently made the decision to go by Ms not Mrs (have taken DH's name), he was a little baffled but did understand that his marital status was not on show for all so why should mine be, but still I get called Mrs. And it's obvious that so many people think you're making some kind of stupid point by insisting on it.

It's a good point.

The Mrs/Miss/Ms thing infuriates me.
So annoying to be defined by my marital (or not) status. The whole pronouns thing just puts you into little boxes.

How the fuck are we at a place where I can go to be questioned for accurately assuming someone's sex or deadnaming but not for misnaming and announcing me as OfDh.

Sexism.

Misgendering and deadnaming deeply upset a minority of males, ones who genuinely believe they are women, or want to be seen by others as women. So obviously anything that could offend them has to be stopped.

Whereas society does not care one iota about the names or title preferences of married women. Because they're female.

It's supposed to be so 'violent' and awful because it's disrupting that person's mental existence in their space as what they wish to be rather than what they actually are. Hence the 'erasing' and 'denying existence' lines which seem to be that they can only exist as a woman if validated and 'seen' as being what they want to be. You will find TW online talking about the need to be perceived by strangers as they wish to be perceived, and how hurtful and distressing it is essentially when they encounter reality and someone's actual perceptions instead of the perceptions they want people to at least pretend they have.

So the questions are really: is it a healthy thing to only feel 'safe' and 'existing' based on constant validation in one's chosen self image - since almost all other thinking about self image is that relying on external validation is never going to work? Is this something that is helpful to encourage people in?

Is it positive, healthy and socially appropriate to wish to control others' perceptions and minds to meet your own needs, and to have so little regard for those others' beliefs, needs and feelings? Are these equal expectations applied to all groups, or is this requesting a very special particular contract with one group of people only, which grants a very unequal burden of labour and responsibility on one side and power on the other? Is this something society should be encouraging people in?

And is it an appropriate, healthy and socially viable demand that others set aside their language, reality, their own personal needs and situation, and that they should unquestioningly and unfailingly nurture someone's illusion of being something they are in fact not? I wonder where that might go if it becomes enshrined by law? hello Mr 50 Year Old Computer Programmer with pigtails and a pink frilly frock and nappies in my kid's preschool

Absolutely accepting of men who choose to become transwomen, but transwomen are transwomen- whatever is wrong with being a transwoman? But humans can't change sex and woman is a fact and reality, not a club. That's the line of reality that has to be dealt with. And 52% of the population have needs and identities too that should not be subordinated to the very particular needs of a small group of male born people.

I've always used Ms but still get called Mrs, based on my age. It feels a bit off because I'm not married, but Miss would be as bad.

Btw in case anyone hasn't read the case and thinks I'm exaggerating about the computer programmer, a man with a sexual fetish has already tried to use the equality act to force his college tutor to change his nappies while he attends on site.

This is the utter bullshit that women have to deal with constantly on one hand from men who will exploit whatever they can in the name of their sex life, and on the other hand from men patting them on the head, telling them not to be silly and paranoid, and this law they're passing will never be twisted and exploited in the way women are telling them it will. And then covering up and denying it and blaming women when it happens exactly as predicted.

You can see why the patriarchy is so very committed to socialising women to be nice: otherwise they'd never get away with it.

Same here NotTerf. It is definitely an ageist thing, as this didn't happen to me until about 10 years ago.

And the fact people would rather call us Mrs than Miss (even though there is no visual clue that I'm Mrs) shows that in their eyes Miss is in fact worse than Mrs. - A spinster! Gasp!

Btw in case anyone hasn't read the case and thinks I'm exaggerating about the computer programmer, a man with a sexual fetish has already tried to use the equality act to force his college tutor to change his nappies while he attends on site.

WTF? Really?

Knicknack I know I read about this before but can you remind me which country this is?

Btw in case anyone hasn't read the case and thinks I'm exaggerating about the computer programmer, a man with a sexual fetish has already tried to use the equality act to force his college tutor to change his nappies while he attends on site.

What? Link please...

US, Vancouver, using the USA equivalent of the UK EA

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-island-university-fetish-student-professor-fired-1.4400306

And this more recent one, Arizona: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6166961/Arizona-man-30-allegedly-told-caregivers-Syndrome-baths-diaper-changes.html

Canada, amazingly not

Argh, you're quite right Eresh . Sorry, I always confuse the two. One Canada, one USA.

Ms has been around for decades but people still wont use it as standard in this country.

I regularly meet new people who refer to themselves as Ms (or Mrs) and everyone just complies with their preference.
Never known it to be an issue. I think some Ms's may have been mis-pronouned as Mrs a few times, but no one has taken offence.

I get called Mrs 'Smith' . DH is Mr 'Jones'.

Which confuses the hell out of people. DH has been referred to as Mr Smith.

He never wanted me to retain my own name. He now denies ever having had that position which is odd to see him say with 100% sincerity given the arguments we had before marrying.

I think after seeing me have to produce documentation to the bank to say I was no longer miss but had never actually changed my name and him being referred to as Mr Smith and generally how he gets better treatment than me from authority and institutions has opened his eyes a bit.

He doesn't want to admit to himself that, that was him too once upon a time.

The thing is, I'm not sure why misgendering is offensive? It's not meant harshly, but if someone looks male you describe them as 'he'. Nothing personal tbh people make mistakes

Denial of reality eh? When it protects your own personal identity as 'liberal, progressive' etc.

It's not just the preserve of trans activism.

I'm not married to DP, and yes, I got miss-named and miss-titled with great frequency in the UK.

Now I'm living in Ireland, and, for all the desire to be progressive, I have to explain myself much more often regarding my marital status/names of me/DP/kids, and when I just went to book a car service, the online system would only accept Mrs or Miss.

Being the person I am, I only point it out if there's going to be repeated communication with a person, or if it looks like that means they're making assumptions they perhaps shouldn't (eg. for Tax or whatever). It's annoying, but it doesn't threaten my world like Knick says, but I also think that's the healthy way to be. If being assumed to be married was that upsetting to me, then I'd think there was something there to be worked on.

I think it's time for me to start looking into a PhD

Please don’t shout at the call centre people though. Do you have any idea how bloody hard it is to say Ms?

I call all women Ms and all men Mr until I have found out otherwise. Once a lady shouted at me for saying Mrs although I said Ms and then it turned out she was a Mrs. For some reason lots of men get offended if I check if they are Mr, I’m just not an assuming person.

I've had bank tellers tell me it was illegal for me to be Ms Smith. I had to be Mrs Jones.

I got cross at that.

How the fuck are we at a place where I can go to be questioned for accurately assuming someone's sex or deadnaming but not for misnaming and announcing me as OfDh.

Because trans people are one of the protected groups when it comes to "hate" crime and so you can't hate them. I think that's how it works. But you can hate women because they are not a protected species, sorry, group.

I was the one who asked that Penny Mordaunt really nicely if women could be added to the list so that it would make it a bit harder for people to hate women and after all she is one so come on but all she said was blah, blah, long grass, blah, blah, back burner, blah, don't really care. I think that's what she said, it was last week.

Hate Crime seems like a bollocks idea anyway but let's at least include all of the people at the shitty end of the stick right?

I insist on Miss as an act of defiance, I'm not married entirely by choice and I refuse to conceal the fact because society decides being "rubber stamped" by a significant other makes me a more valid human being.

I would be delighted if we dispensed with titles altogether, they're mostly used to ndictae marital status and that really is no one else's business.