Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julia Hartley-Brewer and India Willoughby

42 replies

NellieEllie · 20/03/2019 13:58

mobile.twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1108304796283518977

OP posts:
Popchyk · 20/03/2019 14:12

It is this constant shifting of parameters and definitions that get people irritated.

Not that it matters because IW is not female anyways but India Willoughby is on record as saying that IW doesn't have a Gender Recognition Certificate.

twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/991233287824736256

"I don’t have a Gender Recognition Certificate as a point of principle. Never applied. I refuse to walk around with a Star of David in my bag".

GarthFunkel · 20/03/2019 14:14

God I hate finding myself agreeing with JHB and the DM. And yet I have agreed with both already today.

MhairiV · 20/03/2019 14:16

And that legal fiction thing raises its head once again.

EweSurname · 20/03/2019 14:17

You don't need a GRC to change your documents (apart from birth certificate) to female though

BobbinThreadbare123 · 20/03/2019 14:19

A Star of David?! Please tell me that isn't a Third Reich-style oppression reference for...this?

Popchyk · 20/03/2019 14:24

Of course it is, Bobbin.

Same with the Nuremberg rally stuff to refer to Mumsnet.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 20/03/2019 14:39

Not that it matters because IW is not female anyways but India Willoughby is on record as saying that IW doesn't have a Gender Recognition Certificate.

I'd forgotten that gem Popchyk. Whoops India.

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 20/03/2019 15:09

I'm afraid it is bobbin,

Yuck.

ThePurportedDoctoress · 20/03/2019 15:11

IW (and others) should take a moment to reflect on why we have reached a point where a radio presenter has to tell them that they are not a woman.
Julia Hartley-Brewer is not saying it to be unkind. I don't particularly like her, but I'm so glad a woman in the public eye is calling out this bullshit.

And does IW really think that they are invited to give their opinion 'as a woman'? No, they are asked to appear because they are a transwoman.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 20/03/2019 15:15

Julia is currently the only woman saying it straight out, clearly, modelling a woman refusing to accept the male enforced language oppression.

She's absolutely right. India is a transwoman. That's great. But India is not a woman. To insist people call India that is forcing them to lie under threat of punishment. (Whether that is India kicking off, or the arrival of the West Yorkshire Police brandishing crucifixes.)

zanahoria · 20/03/2019 15:16

I doubt her doctors records say she is male

PenguindreamsofDraco · 20/03/2019 15:18

What ever, zanahoria?

misscockerspaniel · 20/03/2019 15:25

I doubt her doctors records say she is male

May be not but their DNA will do!

Popchyk · 20/03/2019 15:26

Anyone remember last year when JHB had IW on? Justine was there.

JHB says to IW before the show: "So, tell me, what is it that you guys actually want?"

IW took much offence.

theOtherPamAyres · 20/03/2019 15:36

Crikey. That is the first time that I've ever seen a broadcast (there's a two minute clip at Talk Radio), in which the interviewer asserts that a transwoman is not and never can be a woman.

Most people skirt round the bald truth for fear of prosecution, but not JHB. She was challenging, combatative and not taking any hurty feelings crap.

IW's attempt to rebut the statement - saying that she had the paperwork to show that she was a woman - cut no ice with our Julia.

She would NOT have it. 'So what? You're a transwoman, not a woman'.

It was very similar to her stance against being called CIS. And IW's response of 'Oh yes I am' sounded ridiclous.

PrincessPlummy · 20/03/2019 15:37

This absolute corker says all at needs to be said about IW
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/02/13/india-willoughbys-not-men-response-feminist-activist-demonstrates-misogyny/

Knicknackpaddyflak · 20/03/2019 15:42

Sigh.

Her doctor's records will have a note that this is a man, with male biology, who needs medical treatment as a man (so as not to kill him) and possibly some additional specialist awareness and knowledge of hormone treatment/surgery specific for transwomen. And that this man prefers to be spoken to as if they are a woman. Polite fiction, respecting choice of identity. Not actually taken to the point of delusional lying.

JellySlice · 20/03/2019 18:16

I refuse to walk around with a Star of David in my bag".

Disgusting.

WeRiseUp · 20/03/2019 19:47

JHB is fucking awesome!

zanahoria · 20/03/2019 20:03

I will never forget IW on CBB trying to bully the women into recognizing her. The result was Amanda Barrie saying "course you are a woman" yet neither she nor any of the other women there really truky interected her in the same way they with each other. They were just paying lip service. On one level it was a bit depressing but they did seem to subtly undermine IW who did not have the selfawareness to realise.

Katvonmythicbiowoman · 20/03/2019 20:11

I don't understand why "transwomen" is so terrible. I don't know why we can't recognise biological fact whilst also respecting a person's gender incongruence.

Mutakirorikatum · 20/03/2019 21:45

I don't understand why "transwomen" is so terrible. I don't know why we can't recognise biological fact whilst also respecting a person's gender incongruence.

Because according to India, India is a woman in exactly the same way as you are a woman. The fact that India does not have the fundamental biological and experiential features of being a woman like a uterus, ovaries, periods, gestating a new human being inside your body and pushing it out of your actual vagina, menopausal flooding and night sweats, the whole nine yards, are just details to India. Such teeny weeny details as to be invisible. There is no material difference between you and India in this scenario, and if you suggest these details are actually a central part of the way you inhabit your body and experience the world, then you are an evil transphobe who thinks all trans people should die. Or something.

Welcome to looking-glass land.

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 22:07

Same with the Nuremberg rally stuff to refer to Mumsnet.

IW's opinion piece in Pink News (this followed the interview with Julia H-B & Justine Roberts last year)

'India Willoughby: Britain’s rampant transphobia has me worried for my life'

(extract)
We’re heading for a modern day Stonewall riot – unless the government and media clamp down on what has become rampant transphobia.

Transgender people are being bullied and hounded like never before – and we need to be very careful about where all this unfettered hate dressed up as “free speech” is going.

The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.

Seriously. That’s no exaggeration." (continues)

The act has stalled through pressure from hardline feminist groups, who see all trans women as potential rapists in dresses.

Cabinet minister Lis Truss has now tweeted her support for Mumsnet, despite the site hosting rampant transphobia. She needs hauling in to the PM’s office – and Theresa May needs to keep her promise about protecting trans people. (cont.)

I defy anyone to visit Mumsnet right now, look up transgender, and tell me that the vicious and mocking threads about trans people would be allowed about any other demographic. It’s the stuff of pitchforks and lanterns. The same rhetoric about race, religion on sexuality would lead to prosecutions and official condemnation.

Mumsnet CEO Justine Roberts squeals that trans people highlighting the content – including threads which out trans people – to some of the site’s main advertisers is out of order. She describes it as an attack on free speech. This might be a shock to Justine, but trans people have free speech, too.

There’s even a debate about introducing a new trans Section 28, clamping down on educating the public about what transgender is.

Justine is adamant there’s nothing transphobic on Mumsnet. Only reasoned debate. She wants transgender visitors to Mumsnet to be “happy and supported.” It feels reminiscent of when Cruella de Vil opens a home for stray dogs in 101 Dalmatians.

As I say, take a look for yourself. Trans groups are more than happy to debate any subject Justine or her murky corner of the web wants – but the material on the site isn’t a discussion. It’s vicious, nasty persecution

Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.

It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate.

I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.” (continues)

I would really like some of my women friends in the media to do the same. Whether it’s an article or a broadcast.

A prominent statement of the facts needs to be made, in a cool and rational manner, so someone gets heard. Because frustrations are boiling over. What started as angry words online is now manifesting itself on the street.

Last week, one of these hate groups held an event in Bristol. Trans allies turned out to support the trans community, and there was a confrontation of sorts.

We also have an ongoing court case involving a trans women accused of assaulting someone at a demo. The trans woman claims she was acting in self-defence.

I don’t want to see anyone – from either side of the argument – get hurt. Which is why the government and the likes of The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and Mumsnet need to show some responsibility.

The current attack on trans people is unprecedented. Any show of support would be greatly appreciated.

Last week was my first ever visit to Mumsnet. Honestly, I thought it was going to be lots of stuff about prams, or family-related matters. A sort of online This Morning minus Phil and Holly. The reality is more like a Nuremberg Rally. It’s very scary." (continues)

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

Doesn't age well that article

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 22:08

Here's the interview with Julia H-B, Justine Roberts & IW

Popchyk · 20/03/2019 22:39

"The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.

Seriously. That’s no exaggeration."

Grin

Never gets old.