Gender neutral pronouns and titles

[CannyLad]

So my DS (age 1) was called a girl at the weekend. It didn't bother me but I didn't want to correct the person who said it, as it felt rude and a little precious. It got me thinking about pronouns, and then it was a short hop to titles.

Why in British English (the only one I know partculalry well) are we so hung up on gendering our pronouns and titles, not to mention throwing in marital status for good measure (at least for the ladies)? Are all languages like this, or is it an English obsession? I'm thinking that French or American English titles are more age based but perhaps that's just in the spoken form (madams and ma'ams)?

I sort of get when describing someone that gender or sex can be a defining characteristic, but it winds me up that it is the focus. I don't want to be defined as an unmarried female - THAT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT ME AT ALL! I do understand that some people want to be defined in this way, but I feel like it would be better if we opted for a neutral position as the status quo and people could 'opt in' to gendering and marital status if they felt the need.

The whole thing gets topsy turvey when someone who looks like one sex but uses the pronouns of the other gender. Or even if that person genuinely looks like their prefered gender (or do I mean sex? I've confused myself), then the pronoun has even less value surely? What exactly are we trying to define, do we need these labels? It all seems a bit odd when you look at it.

Why do we advertise to the world what gender we are and if we're married? It feels sordid at times, like I'm giving the nice man at the hotel check-in desk a little wink if I write Miss CannyLad ! Will it change? Am I talking nonesense?

Baffled here (by the OP), but the French give their nouns a gender if that’s any help.

I don’t see the point either. Although I Had a fun ( for me ) phone call once from someone asking for mr midge. They had made some sexist assumptions.

I’ve been a Ms for as long as I have needed a title. It really doesn’t bother me (but then in Glasgow ‘missus’ is usually aimed at any woman over the age of 20).

Speaking of Glasgow, “Hen” is very feminine or at least female.

‘Aye, hennnnn’
‘Doll’ is also feminine I suppose. ‘Darlin’ could be either as can ‘ho you’.

There isn't an easy gender-neutral option. There is a hard one, of earning a doctorate or becoming a physician, and being allowed and expected to title yourself Dr.

As for spoken address, in certain circles (vanishingly few) everyone is addressed as "comrade". Otherwise it's back to "ladies and gentlemen" to speak to a group, and nothing obvious for an individual. "Excuse me, comrade, your beer is dripping onto my copy of the Morning Star."

Comrade, your Beaujolais is ...

Well, you must know why women are Miss until married and then Mrs? Compared to men being Mr all the way through (or perhaps Master as a child).

Then the title Ms was invented as a title for women that didn't indicate marital status, but a lot of people think it relates to divorcees only.

Then there's Mx which is meant to be neutral and not indicate sex (or gender if that's your belief system), but again it seems to be used mainly by women rejecting Miss/Mrs/Ms.

What do Americans do differently?

Mx = motocross.

Why use a title at all? Mx isn’t often used my a male anyway.

Then the title Ms was invented as a title for women that didn't indicate marital status, but a lot of people think it relates to divorcees only.

I really only learnt very recently (in the last couple of years - on here, where else?) that some people think this is a title for divorcees. I used it thinking it was simply the title you use if you don't want to advertise your marital status. In fact, I still think that. Where did the idea that it was for divorcees come from?

Most languages have more gender than English, not less. We have a surprisingly non-gendered language.

Latin has three genders and none of them is trans.

Some in my family’s mother tongue doesn’t have he’s and she’s. I await the first lawsuit...

Can recommend getting a medical degree and/or a PhD, if only for the satisfaction of being able to reply to the inane, ‘Is that Miss or Mrs’ questions with, ‘Its Dr, actually’.

To which the response is, invariably, ‘Oh sorry’.

I have a range if self ID titles to choose from... 👆🏻

Well, I thought about identifying as a Dr, but decided on balance not to. (It is fun to book tickets on automated systems, and in the drop-down menu decide between being a Lord and a Reverend. I identify as a Prof. on alternate Tuesdays.)

I created this account to post here on FWR, but occasionally I post on other boards. One OP thanked me for my comments, calling me Mrs Tiggywinkle and thus completely missing the point.

I've come across far too many people who think Ms means you're divorced, or who interpret it as a political statement.
I didn't like having to make the choice between that and declaring my marital status, it irks me that men don't have to consider this a choice, so I did a PhD Never said "it's doctor, actually" though, as I find the only place I'm ever asked for my title is online forms! And lots of people are twats if you use Dr in everyday life - because it's "not relevant". Neither is your marital status love

Mx is made up bollocks. Far better to not use titles at all, we really don't need them.

A number of languages not only have gender for nouns, but if referring to you by name will use the appropriate gender - e.g. when I was last in Germany, our German friend met me at the door and shouted to his wife "Die Vickie ist hier!"

It's a lot easier here, therefore, to avoid using 'preferred pronouns altogether by simply using the person's name when referring to them.

I changed my name back to my birth name when I left my marriage. I was unsure as to which title to choose. I’m not a Mrs, Miss gets you looks when you’re my age and Ms seems to garner hostility. Seems like there’s no judgement free title if you’re a woman. I went back to Miss in the end, partly because I wanted to pretend like my marriage had never happened.

I still get called bloody Mrs everywhere I go though, which makes me squirm because I’ve never even been Mrs Fuckery, it just makes me think of my mum or my nan.

I suppose in a sense refusing, as a woman, to declare your marital status is a political statement. Hence I like Ms.

In general I avoid using titles at all, but can't resist answering "It's Dr." to the inevitable "Is that Miss or Mrs" question. As a result, much of our joint paperwork is addressed to Dr MyName and Mr DHsName, because they've just assumed his title (he's a Dr too).

(New username, btw, from an occasional poster and regular feminism lurker.)