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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So the collected signatures from Bi and Gay folk?

24 replies

EeveePHD · 15/03/2019 21:22

What do we make of all the collected signatures from the #GwithTheT and #BwiththeT campaign after #LwiththeT?

OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 15/03/2019 22:41

I don't make much of it. What do you make of it EeveePHD?

MhairiV · 15/03/2019 22:53

Just more men telling women to be quiet. Heard it a million times before. In a nutshell.

PleaseSpeak · 15/03/2019 23:06

I really think we need a letter signed by all gender critical lesbian and bisexual women. That would be a bloody long list. Ofc it's more risky for GC lesbians to sign with their actual names and it would be very risky for anybody in the public eye. But of we could get thousands of non-famous lesbians to sign maybe it would embolden the famous ones..? We could call it "the L and B with the GC". It could be about how we both wish to stand for female only spaces for the protection of all women, for non-conforming children to be protected and not experimented on, for an end to transing away the gay, for GC trans women and lesbian women to be respected for our views, a statement against the gender ideology which is harming young lesbian and bisexual women disproportionately, for an end to double think and denial of material reality, and also against the cotton ceiling.

MhairiV · 15/03/2019 23:10

I'm getting pretty fed up seeing these self-indulgent letters with woke cookie grabbing signatories who mostly know eff all about the issues and all have way more of a privileged existence and platform than the people from whom they'd like to remove rights and protections.

Ereshkigal · 15/03/2019 23:14

Me too.

EeveePHD · 16/03/2019 03:27

I personally think it is wonderful. I just saw no mention of it here whatsoever which I thought was odd.

OP posts:
EeveePHD · 16/03/2019 03:30

PleaseSpeak, go for it. You'll never know unless you try it.

OP posts:
trumptrump · 16/03/2019 04:15

I'm intrigued by this. It will be interesting to see how quickly these people jump ship when things go wrong.

theOtherPamAyres · 16/03/2019 04:34

A whiney appeal to stick up for trans 'siblings' that was unconvincing because:

  • it didn't make a case for trans people
  • showed a complete absence of knowledge around the issues
  • did not give reasons why women should lose sex-based rights to men
  • did not address or recognise that there are safeguarding risks
  • ignored the harms that have already emerged where self i/d has been implemented in advance of a review of the GRA and Equality Act
  • looked like a load of ignorant blokes intent on upholding men's rights over women.

It was a poor show that has been debunked with detailed, evidence-based analysis from feminists, bloggers and gay men alike.

Inspector David Harland from West Yorkshire Police (where else?) proudly declared himself a signatory saying:
I pledge in my role of a Police Officer to continue raising awareness of Transphobia, doing all I can for the #Trans Community. Zero tolerance to Transphobia in any of its guises.

You can imagine the response to such bare-faced partiality from an officer of the Crown ...... or you can read responses here:

twitter.com/WYPDavidHarland/status/1106142178475151360

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/03/2019 07:24

When I see GwiththeT it just makes me think of gin and tonic Blush.

Anyway I though this gay man's comment on it was perfect: medium.com/@JonnnyBest/watch-out-gay-men-the-evil-women-are-coming-to-get-you-2c7ec6feba8

Janie143 · 16/03/2019 07:36

A gay man has started a petition standing up for women www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3534407-Men-Please-Support-Women-s-Sex-Based-Rights?msgid=85622083#85622083

terfsandwich · 16/03/2019 08:03

Yes EEVIE it's wonderful. Homosexuals supporting homophobia. What's not to like.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/03/2019 08:06

I’m not holding my breath waiting for a TforWomen letter.

The Vancouver rape crisis centre has been defunded by a gobsmackingingly obvious anti-woman trans cabal. Because raped women don’t want men around. Huh???

PleaseSpeak · 16/03/2019 10:23

Eevee I can't go for it because I have to stay anonymous (and have come off social media for my health). My material security would be threatened by people who think they are 'right on', if I so much as hinted at an opinion which centres women and is critical of gender. Working class disabled women (like me) generally don't have the privilege, networks and social capital to make the risk of this worth it.

I could be part of a team to construct the wording for a letter but I couldn't be solely responsible, neither do I have the networks to distribute.

Even though my emotional and personal experiences would put me firmly in the trans box in most of those people's eyes, the world is turning into a place where most women can't express their reasonable opinion, not even those who have a deep empathy for trans issues.

I am amazed at some of the women in this forum and beyond who do choose to take on the abuse and hits to their personal lives to stand up for so many other women who are all having quiet and afraid conversations about all this.

All these G with T etc. letters just silence further people who are struggling to have a voice because people tend not to listen to women who centre themselves and other women in struggles for space, boundaries, and equality.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 16/03/2019 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 16/03/2019 10:36

Love that, Spartacus!

DpWm · 16/03/2019 10:38

Ruth Hunt has resigned from Stonewall, coinciding with ever increasing schisms between the G,L,B and the T which says far more than yet another letter saying word salad with a bunch of signatories.
People are panicking.

Ereshkigal · 16/03/2019 10:40

I just saw no mention of it here whatsoever which I thought was odd.

Because misogyny, either from straight or gay men, isn't exactly "hold the front page" news.

It's discussed on the Anthony Watson thread. Which is about other instances of his misogyny. Not just this.

Ereshkigal · 16/03/2019 10:46

Actually there was this thread. So you didn't look very far.

Stonewall Are Now Writing Letters in the Daily Fail
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3532948-Stonewall-Are-Now-Writing-Letters-in-the-Daily-Fail

Ereshkigal · 16/03/2019 10:47

And one correction from me, the thread I was referring to is about Stonewall, though Anthony Watson is mentioned a lot.

theOtherPamAyres · 16/03/2019 13:53

So far, eight and a half thousand people have signed the petition urging Stonewall to review its approach to trans validation lobbying.

A typical comment from a petitioner:

As a former vice-chair of LGBT+ network, I wish to record my strong concern at the prescriptive policy that is currently in place

The petition is still open and is aiming for 10,000 signatures:

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/03/2019 14:00

They won’t reconsider though will they? Never in a million years.

theOtherPamAyres · 16/03/2019 14:23

They won’t reconsider though will they? Never in a million years.

I think the petition put Ruth Hunt under a lot of pressure. I actually believe that this petition has made Stonewall wet their collective pants.

As more and more gay and bi people sign and disown them (in very polite, considered terms), they lose credibility as lobbyists for the LGB. As such, they are in danger of losing their privileged access to government departments and ministers.

As the pressure mounts - with petitions, articles and challenges from every quarter - politicians and public servants won't want to be associated with an organisation that doesn't speak for gay and bi people, poses a threat to women's rights and only stands for Trans Validation (rather than trans rights and equality).

The petition from the 72 masons gay men was a damp squib that betrayed their panic at the prospect of losing control of the Man Project.

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