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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girls become nurses and boys become doctors

16 replies

RainbowWaffles · 15/03/2019 08:25

www.google.nl/amp/www.ladbible.com/news/news-sexist-image-of-little-boy-and-girl-sparks-twitter-debate-20190314.amp.html

This came up on my Facebook feed. Okay it’s shockingly sexist and whoever published it was woefully misguided. The thing is the vast majority of the comments saw nothing wrong with the image and considered it to be pc gone made or snowflakey to consider it sexist.

There were some comments that one couldn’t assume one was a boy and one was a girl which while attempting to be faux woke (as I don’t think it was a genuine defence of the picture), it deliberately misses the point. As does much discussion as to how nurses are just as important as doctors.

How the hell do so many people fail to see that the image is sexist and unacceptable. I wouldn’t have thought it’s even a conversation in this day and age. I am pretty shocked.

OP posts:
Brysonette · 15/03/2019 08:37

I think if the children both wore the same colour it would be more acceptable but still plays on the stereotype of girls nurses, boys doctors.
Regarding careers, there is a (necessary) push to get females into STEM subjects but I don't see similar in attempting to get males into careers traditionally stereotyped as female careers such as nursing and caring. Probably due to the lower pay associated with those roles which is a whole thread in itself but it still gives rise to the "male" careers = good, "female" careers = bad.

(I hope I've got across what I mean, I'm not as eloquent as others on this board!)

HumansCannotEverChangeSex · 15/03/2019 09:09

For what it’s worth, I think nurses to some degree have the harder job. I have met a few male nurses too and female doctors, in fact, my daughters has a lot of female doctors that work her case. Her main doctor where we live is male and the same role is filled by a female when she travels for some of her appointments. I don’t think the picture is necessarily sexist it’s just what is seen in everyday life. Majority of nurses are female and a many doctors are male but I think there are more female doctors than male nurses. Just from my small experience of about four different hospitals I’ve regularly attended. I don’t think going around and making every situation like this one a big deal will help, wouldn’t we end up going the other way if we constantly made any picture showing a doctor a female and any picture showing a nurse as male? We need more, granted but this way round also isn’t bad. Nurses are amazing and I’d never be annoyed if my daughter wanted to be a nurse instead of a doctor.

RainbowWaffles · 15/03/2019 09:52

Why can’t the pink one say I want to be a doctor? Why can’t we show more doctors as female or more nurses as male? To say it mimics what is observed in hospitals is a bit of a red herring as that is arguably the exact problem. The image entrenches gender specific stereotypes that are to the advantage of men and the disadvantage of women.

I am not bashing nurses, but it is a stereotypically ‘female’ role and requires less rigorous academics to get into and pays less. It may well be the harder role, but it pays less. Is this what we encourage our daughters into, the roles that are more difficult but less financially rewarding? Why don’t we encourage them into the easier roles that pay better?

This image is supposed to represent the aspiration of the youngest generation. Girls like pink and want to be nurses and boys like green and want to be doctors. This is really where we are at?

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EcclesThePeacock · 15/03/2019 10:05

Nurses are amazing and I’d never be annoyed if my daughter wanted to be a nurse instead of a doctor.

They are indeed amazing, but surely the point is that you'd never be annoyed if any child of yours wanted to be a nurse instead of a doctor?

FeministCat · 15/03/2019 12:06

I don’t think the picture is necessarily sexist it’s just what is seen in everyday life. Majority of nurses are female and a many doctors are male but I think there are more female doctors than male nurses.

But that’s the point here isn’t? The reinforcement of what has been stereotypically true?

Kindly, a huge reason we see more women as nurses and more men as doctors has very sexist origins - ones that barred women from medical colleges and practicing medicine, that played up on the stereotypes that women were the “kinder, gentler sex” and thus should be the ones to change dressings and bedpans while the men used their brains to diagnose, their “steady, strong hands” to cut into patients, and so on. Ones that mean that what we see now as the “everyday” is still pervasive. Where I still people say “well, “naturally” women want to go into nursing so they can take care of their own kids - doctors are never home!”. Odd that because actually I don’t see that is how it happens at all. My doctor friends, male and female, while has more rigorous schooling I agree all tend to have more flexibility in their schedule as they chose specialties that allowed that, and still earn very high incomes - in some places (where care is not socialized) almost whatever they demand to be paid without question because everyone knows if they don’t pay them they will go somewhere else leaving a hospital without a speciality, a small area without a family doctor, etc. Where there is socialized/universal healthcare, it is often the harder they work (ie more patients they see, the more billing they do back to government) the more they get paid. They also get wines and dined by pharma reps, medical equipment reps. While the nurses are the ones working 4+ 12-hour shifts a week, get paid the same no matter how many patients they see on shift, how many IVs they stuck in, or bed pans they change, and often ending up in strikes when their wages are frozen.

Sure, I have experience with and also personally know some male nurses and some female doctors. And no one is saying nursing is “easy” here, the point is nursing is generally less academically rigorous, seen as less “prestigious”, and deserving of less pay, even where nurses are acting nurse practitioners and have taken on more and more of the work of doctors.

So, just because something is seen “everyday” does not mean it is lacking sexism, that it is a “good thing”, or that we should roll over and accept it as the status quo.

HumansCannotEverChangeSex · 21/03/2019 18:48

EcclesThePeacock I only have daughters hence me using the word daughter for my comment. I wouldn’t care if I had a son and they wanted to be a nurse either.

HumansCannotEverChangeSex · 21/03/2019 18:50

I don’t think I said there isn’t sexism in the medical industry.

PerspicaciaTick · 21/03/2019 18:57

For the men who choose to become nurses, career progression is much better than for their female colleagues.
Men get to win, whichever route they choose.

EcclesThePeacock · 21/03/2019 18:58

Similar story with primary school teachers, isn't it?

Cats100 · 21/03/2019 20:05

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Cats100 · 21/03/2019 20:07

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Cats100 · 21/03/2019 20:16

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Decormad38 · 21/03/2019 20:17

I know male nurses that earn £90k a year. I know female nurses that operate. I know male doctors who work part time so they can d j. I know female doctors that struggle to work due to mental health problems. Its a mixed and complex landscape of jobs especially in healthcare now. The old stereotypes apply less. Today in my asthma course I ran I had two pharmacists six nurses and a paramedic. Mixed genders. Nurses being purely seen as carers is a thing of the past.

Cats100 · 21/03/2019 20:19

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EcclesThePeacock · 21/03/2019 20:29

As there are less men doing this type of work -they are likely to raise faster in such a profession

Bollocks. Why should their scarcity mean they should rise more quickly?Confused
'Things of a hygienic nature', afaik, are more likely to be dealt with by TAs anyway... ideally there would be a mix of those too, of course.

CostanzaG · 21/03/2019 20:42

cats are you deliberately goady or do you just not understand the issues here?

As a career guidance professional this image gives me the rage!!

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