Male privilege

[Bice]

I haven’t started a thread here before so please go easy on me!

I’m often lurking and have always been GC- for me this is a central part of feminism- it doesn’t make sense to me without it.

I work in a sector that is traditionally very ‘woke’ and still have many examples of having to prove my worth way more than any man has to. No surprise there..

I recently had to attend a professional development type day. The usual male/female dynamics were at play in terms of who felt entitled to take airspace etc.

I’ve always been very aware of this and take steps to redress the balance where I can. Taking airspace and being assertive. I’m usually pretty confident and happy to make a stand. I’ve noticed other women doing the same.

This event was different. The only TW in the room was listened to intently, fawned over and I felt that everyone was bending over backwards not to ‘upset’ them. I treated them like I treated everyone else and ended up feeling alienated..

The room was cramped and several people, including ones with disabilities struggled to make their way out to the loo, no one made much of a fuss.

This (young and able bodied) person went to get out of their row and people nearly fell over themselves to get out of the way. The facilitator had to pause because of the chorus of ‘ooh, let me move out of your way’ ‘sorry darling’ etc.

This person behaved unprofessionally, making ‘jokes’ such as how they kept their business going was by ‘sleeping with rich men’ I was the only one who didn’t laugh. Imagine if I’d said that!

Some people would raise their hands if they wanted to contribute to the discussion but someone else was speaking. Some waited a while for the facilitator to come to them.

At one point two people were waiting to speak, this TW put their hand up and started huffing when the facilitator went to those waiting first. The woman sat next to them instantly whispered ‘just interupt’ (with a ‘there there’ pat on the hand)

I pointed out that two people were already waiting to speak. You should have seen the looks I got!

I don’t think I would have got the same reaction if I’d said the same to anyone else in the room.

This person then turned their back on me and was further comforted by the woman next to them.

I don’t really know why I’m posting. I think it’s because I’m furious again at this ‘ Emperor’s new clothes’ situation we’re in. At seeing people I know would class themselves as feminists bowing down to one individual for fear of being seen as prejudiced, at myself for the same and a feeling that all these years of standing up for women’s rights are being erased amongst this farce. I guess I’m looking for some actual sisterly feminist solidarity because somewhere amongst this shit show it seems to have disappeared from my life.

I do speak out at work and in my personal life and try an encourage critical thinking amongst others- I think I’m seen as a bigot (or at best a bit OTT) My feminism can feel like a dirty secret. This appalls me and depresses me in equal measure.

The only person in this scenario who seemed to agree with me on what was going on was a gay man who came to talk to me afterwards. He said he feels the LGB community has been overtaken by the TQ+

It can be a lonely and disheartening path to be on can’t it? I know I’m not even doing much and there’s people out there really putting themselves on the line so I don’t want to be all ‘poor me’ about it but fuck, this is madness.

I can’t actually believe how weak and deflated I feel. It’s not like me!

Anyway, thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

I admire what so many of you are doing. I thought I was strong but I’m beginning to doubt that!

I know how you feel

And yes it's like you just want to shake people and say "WHY CAN'T YOU SEE IT!" They rush to pander to these people while trampling on others to do so.

Thank you for posting, this happens to a lot of us. I don't know the answer, but being around women who 'get' this is so comfortable, and so reassuring, that I am now actively seeking out meet ups IRL

I think many of us feel the way you describe, it's hard to see the truth when so many other people seem to choose to remain oblivious.

Especially when it comes to women's hard won rights being dismantled, and the destruction of our safe spaces celebrated as a win for justice and equality.

At the moment I'm finding a lot of consolation in the growing tsunami of ordinary people who are finally noticing that the Emperor is stark bollock naked when they see what the TRA agenda is doing to female sports.

So many people sitting up and taking notice after far too many years of being lulled by the Guardian and BBC into believing that elderly lesbian feminists had turned rabid and rededicated their lives to unprovoked hate attacks on vulnerable minorities for no discernible reason.

the destruction of our safe spaces celebrated as a win for justice and equality.

Yes that's definitely the aspect I find hardest to take.

Thank you so much for responding.

Just what I needed. I can’t believe how shit this had made me feel.

Totally relate to the WHY CAN’T YOU SEE IT thing. I feel like this a lot and this event epitomised the isolation that generates for me. The whole world seems to have so mad that I begin to feel it must be me.

‘Fellow feminists’ avoiding eye contact and falling over themselves to look ‘right on’ in the face of one individual’s ‘needs’ (debatable IMO-felt more like pandering to a petulant child) trumping everyone else’s. It feels like the ultimate betrayal. Like many others I’ve cancelled my Labour Party membership (I told them why) in the face of this shit being spouted by ‘comrades’ utter bollocks (!)

Especially when it comes to women's hard won rights being dismantled, and the destruction of our safe spaces celebrated as a win for justice and equality. YES!!!

Thank you for your solidarity, you’re restoring my faith in humanity amongst this mass gaslighting.

And yes, there is hope, more are speaking out and I hope the current debate on women’s sport is really going to help. You sum this up perfectly:

At the moment I'm finding a lot of consolation in the growing tsunami of ordinary people who are finally noticing that the Emperor is stark bollock naked when they see what the TRA agenda is doing to female sports

I’m not pleased that other women feel the way I do but you’ve made me feel less alone. Thank you

That must be infuriating OP. I bet all the people falling over the person would give you a 10 minute lecture on male privilege too.

lulled by the Guardian and BBC into believing that elderly lesbian feminists had turned rabid and rededicated their lives to unprovoked hate attacks on vulnerable minorities for no discernible reason.

It’s amazing how many people have unquestioningly accepted this. It’s bonkers.

They absolutely would Woke!! It would be funny if it weren’t so dangerously tragic.

And yes, very good point about people blindly accepting that myth about rabid feminists.

I used to be fairly well respected in my profession- not to blow my own trumpet but people would seek advice and value my opinion.. these days not so much.

I think it must be because I’ve suddenly and inexplicably become a violent (because speech is now violence yes?) bigot

When the young woke women become aged and decrepit (as is inevitable sadly) and have to deal with the impact of pregnancy/childbirth/child-rearing/infertility/abortion/miscarriage/menopause and all the rest that female biology brings, and the lifelong impact of a gender pay gap and discrimination because they are female (not identifying as female, just female).....then the scales will fall from their eyes. Hopefully we will still be here, not to say I told you so, but to say we’ve been waiting for you.

I keep seeing this on Facebook. It is really weird that people who typically are vocally opposed to homeopathy nonsense or anti-vaxxer nonsense are so often vocal proponents of transgenderist nonsense.

Hi Bice

It really is a case of the emperor's new frock and padded bra out there (must be a Women in that garb!) I agree with Snippy that real life meet ups are reassuring to your sanity when all those around you seem to have lost their minds. There's a great thread on here that is worth trawling through to find people in your part of the country who are happy to meet up IRL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3259777-Lets-meet-up-find-start-gender-critical-feminist-groups?pg=14

Yes!!

People who I had previously seen speaking out about all kinds of other bullshit seem completely blindsided by this one. That’s one of the things that really got me about that event. No nonsense strong women bending over backwards to reinforce the privilege at their own expense 🤷‍♀️

I think until recently I’d been quite clear that everyone else was losing the plot but that made me feel like it might be me which scared me!

Thank you again for you support, I’m feeling slightly more sane again this morning and thank you for the link to that thread, I’m going to trawl through

Trans = Sacred caste in wokeland

What a pantomime. Can’t believe you were the only one that was

When you read the comments on any article about eg bergdorf munroe saying they feel threatened by "cis women" you would despair less and feel a bit more hearten3d that ordinary people get it

Ah yes. Thank fully we’ve got no trans people in my office (yet) but I got a stern look for saying that Mrs Tumble is a bloke in a dress as Justin plays all the parts and was looked at like I was made for saying I would not send my daughter to a secondary with mixed toilets.

Pantomime it was Karwomannghia- one with a dark, dystopian feel to it.

I think frank is right. The way it was going, I wouldn’t have been surprised if someone had fetched this person a special throne to sit on

They weren’t even a likeable character. I found them to be dismissive and arrogant to say the least. Again, I can imagine the reception I would get if I behaved like that!

Thank you Duchess I’ll look that up to make myself feel better 👍

Lemoncake that’s fucking crazy!

Jeez, I remember being just like that about 15 years ago when a renowned MtF couple graced us with their presence. They were very nice, actually, and didn't display any male privilege. But me? Inside I was going 'Must act normally, must act normally' and so offered to buy them a drink. Which they graciously accepted and all the time I was processing 'Phew, that was normal.'
I think there is a lot of unacknowledged overthinking going on.

If people are a bit weird around obvious MtFs they must feel like the queen, who must think everywhere smells of fresh paint.
Not really intending to be OT, just trying to shed some light on the fawning mentality. Which I agree is shocking, and obvious once it's pointed out.

One things for sure, these woke people clearly do NOT see transwomen as women, as they treat them the same way they would another male..centre of attention, massive praise for tiny things, etc etc.

Really interesting points/insights Persifleur ( at the fresh paint thing) thank you. I know I have behaved differently in different situations in a bid to ‘act normal’ so that makes a bit more sense of it for me.

I get that as human beings who want to be seen as right on we probably all do that sometimes but this seems a new level- it’s the trampling on women’s rights to do this that is so difficult with this one isn’t it.

And yes Vixxxy I felt the same although even more so with this person. It was like male privilege +

I’d guess this person didn’t get fawned over quite so much when they ‘were’ a gay man.

Anyway, I’ve decided that as I believe gender stereotypes to be oppressive socially constructed bullshit, that I don’t identify as any ‘gender’ so if that’s how we’re all to identify ourselves these days I’ll declare myself as ‘non binary’ (that’s what it means right?)

Unfortunately as a woman, I doubt this will bring me further privilege. I do however, wonder if all the usual sexism and discrimination I experience will then be deemed ‘violent hate crime’- I’ll be busy ringing the police several times a day

Thanks for all your responses and thoughts. It’s good to know I’m not alone and has made me realise the importance of connecting with like minded people IRL. I really appreciate that