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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TImes article - "Bearded, non-binary authors have eyes on women’s prize"

53 replies

EweSurname · 11/03/2019 09:59

The Times has covered this story, focusing more on the complexities of placing non-binary people into categories. Does it not follow that we will need 76+ categories to accommodate all the varying genders?

The story of how a woman who doesn't identify as a woman is nonetheless is happy to be up for a women's prize - from a guardian article: She said the judges were not aware of Emezi’s gender identity when they selected Freshwater, but they did check that Emezi was happy to be longlisted before the announcement

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bearded-non-binary-authors-have-eyes-on-womens-prize-08n77tkjs

Emezi has criticised the jury after one of the judges suggested that the novelist had been accepted into the award only because when the novel was published they had identified as female. Emezi said this was untrue and claimed that the judge, Arifa Akbar, was guilty of misgendering.

[...]The author’s selection and the subsequent fallout has prompted the organisers of the prize, first awarded in 1996, to “formulate a policy around gender fluid, transgender, non-binary writers to provide clarity” for its future.

Another non-binary, transgender writer, Vic Parsons, said it was clear that Emezi had only been included because at birth they were “assigned a female gender”. Parsons suggested that a novel would not have been allowed if written by someone who had once identified as a man. Parsons said that if non-binary people “who were assigned female at birth” were included, then non-binary people “who were assigned male at birth” must be. “That includes those of us who have beards, who are more masculine-presenting, and those who are more fem-presenting,” Parsons told BBC’s Radio 4’s Front Row. “If you are going to say non-binary, that absolutely has to include all non-binary people.”

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 11/03/2019 22:44

FC - is that true? some medic removed her healthy womb? what the actual fuck?

She wasn't tied up and had it forcibly removed, so I'm not sure why you are so outraged on behalf of what appears to be choice of a rather silly , vain but grown-up narcissist.

Here they are in Vogue, in a Gucci dress, photographed by Annie Leibowitz. Not looking anything like a woman.

www.vogue.com/article/families-changing-the-world-vogue-february-2018-issue.

I downloaded a free sample of the first chapter of their book. It's awful - a curious mix of utterly pretentious and utterly pedestrian.

OldCrone · 11/03/2019 22:52

In the article I linked to, Emezi explains that Emezi is possessed by an evil spirit (or perhaps is an evil spirit - it was difficult to follow the argument). In order to break the evil spirit's reincarnation cycle it is important that Emezi doesn't reproduce.

Emezi obtained a letter from Emezi's therapist stating that Emezi was sane. This meant that Emezi could have a hysterectomy and a breast reduction because Emezi is trans.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 11/03/2019 23:56

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BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/03/2019 06:48

She wasn't tied up and had it forcibly removed, so I'm not sure why you are so outraged on behalf of what appears to be choice of a rather silly , vain but grown-up narcissist.

I am outraged that a doctor mutilated a healthy body

justified I think

GabrielleNelson · 12/03/2019 09:39

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OldCrone · 12/03/2019 11:01

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/03/2019 12:03

quack
quack
quack

KatVonlabonk · 05/10/2020 15:10

They / them got very triggered about a request for their lawful sex and now the womans prize are saying anyone can qualify......

amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/05/akwaeke-emezi-shuns-womens-prize-request-for-details-of-sex-as-defined-by-law?fbclid=IwAR1R50ujeS62bdm6yvKYuKWNNfjmgTVT-qD21CkV1SxiGoJ9ObSvtLHbEo8&__twitter_impression=true

KatVonlabonk · 05/10/2020 15:11

Oh and nice libel here. Coward

TImes article - "Bearded, non-binary authors have eyes on women’s prize"
KatVonlabonk · 05/10/2020 15:14

Words I don't like are LITERAL VIOLENCE

TImes article - "Bearded, non-binary authors have eyes on women’s prize"
aliasundercover · 05/10/2020 15:28

@Knicknackpaddyflak

Gabrielle that's come to mind for me too, so many times Grin
Emezi said this was untrue and claimed that the judge, Arifa Akbar, was guilty of misgendering.

To which the only sensible answer is “Yes, so what?”

It you want to claim you are one of the 100 different genders then, yawn, ok. But how and why should anyone else be expected to know, remember or care?

highame · 05/10/2020 15:41

I think perhaps this one should just roll. All those lovely feminist(not) writers who have been happy to throw women under the bus will now have to reap what they sow. All the judges will want to show their woke credentials by nominating all the prizes to trans writers.

Still laughing because somehow I think the very woke art world are going to come a cropper 😂

p.s. Having a pure women's prize is important because it shows up how sexist the world is when University Challenge questions about women largely go unanswered

GratedExposure · 05/10/2020 15:50

I was once advised by a kindly senior male academic to submit articles using initials for my first names. This is because, he said delightedly, I "write like a man", and it would be a shame for reviewers to realise that this was not the case. This was less than a decade ago.

Different type of writing, but this is yet another every day example of why women have needed separate consideration when it comes to evaluating their written material.

moley75 · 05/10/2020 15:51

because it shows up how sexist the world is when University Challenge questions about women largely go unanswered

I've noticed this too and it's not obscure women that draw blanks. Unless the answer is Jane Austen, Ada Lovelace, or Florence Nightingale, it's a pass.

WeeBisom · 05/10/2020 16:10

This just shows that calls to be inclusive eventually lead to the entire category dissolving. It opens up to everyone. And when things are open to everyone men usually dominate. To be honest I don't get why non binaries are included in women's categories - they claim they are not women. It would be better to exclude them entirely and respect their self identification than to allow non binary people which also includes the male and bearded kind. However, I suspect they want to have their cake and eat it.

Kantastic · 05/10/2020 16:33

“what good fiction does best: it is an antidote to invisibility”

quote from the Guardian article about the nonbinary tantrum-haver. The book is of course about a nonbinary person.

Forgive me but I don't think that LOOK AT ME is the purpose of fiction, and I question why anyone would want to read this. Like, isn't fiction supposed to serve the readers not the author? By saying fiction is the "antidote to invisibility" the Grauniad has it backwards.

They made the book sound utterly dire.

BraveBananaBadge · 05/10/2020 16:47

What an utterly tedious person.

Winesalot · 05/10/2020 16:56

Well, looking at the hyperbole they use in their comments, I think I can happily skip their fiction. The hyperbole must be off the scale.

Goosefoot · 05/10/2020 17:06

I'm not convinced that the prize is worthwhile, aside from the fact that they seem confused about their purpose, I expect fiction prizes to encourage writers with something to offer or who we want to encourage people to read. This seems like the worst sort example of the pretentious, boring, unreadable crap that comes out of literary fiction.

wellbehavedwomen · 05/10/2020 17:22

"The force of her violent hatred for people who are just minding their business and trying not to get murdered is really something..."

Trans people in the UK have half the average murder rate. In fact a trans person is statistically more likely to perpetrate a murder than be murdered. And I've yet to see anyone able to point to a single thing JK Rowling has ever said that's transphobic, other than that sex is a real thing, that really does exist, and has massive impacts on women's lives especially - which is a material reality, like it or not, and it's pretty fucking hateful towards women to argue otherwise.

I do wonder sometimes whether people like this have any self-awareness at all. It's quite bizarre, inventing these overwrought, baroque fantasies of persecution to justify their own hatred for other human beings, simply because those human beings refuse to accept evidence-free assertions that have huge and at times desperately detrimental impacts on other people. There's no right to have a faith belief accepted as mandated truth - far less to hurl accusations of hatred, and to wish death upon, anyone pointing out the Emperor's unfortunate state of nudity.

Cheerleading lies about murder rates, and Rowling's views helps precisely nobody. It's enabling people, who frankly appear in need of therapeutic intervention, to believe in their own fantasies, because they are scaffolded in those fantasies being truthful, despite resounding evidence to the contrary. That surely helps nobody.

Far too many appear to inhabit a post-truth world, and to simply reject facts that don't appeal to them. Both sides of the aisle. We live in very strange times.

wellbehavedwomen · 05/10/2020 17:30

@WeeBisom

This just shows that calls to be inclusive eventually lead to the entire category dissolving. It opens up to everyone. And when things are open to everyone men usually dominate. To be honest I don't get why non binaries are included in women's categories - they claim they are not women. It would be better to exclude them entirely and respect their self identification than to allow non binary people which also includes the male and bearded kind. However, I suspect they want to have their cake and eat it.
I remember a speech by a woman lawyer, in which she pointed out that the drive towards gender neutrality in law and language won't, and can't, eliminate sexism, which is biologically based. It will just render it impossible to identify and challenge. And the default human will, once again, be male, and women shoved to the sidelines. But this time, we won't have the language to be able to fight back.
EarthSight · 05/10/2020 17:32

@wellbehavedwomen Well said, and sadly true.

Vermeil · 05/10/2020 18:04

We’ve reached the point where anyone can adopt an exotic identity to get themselves exposure, it’s now nothing more than the pretentious affectation du jour.

Malahaha · 05/10/2020 18:30

Wellbehavedwoman Flowers

NRatched · 05/10/2020 18:40

Why always the womens awards Sad

Why not, fight to include a non binary award or something. Not that I think non binary is actually a thing (beyond another label) but..why would non-binary people want the womens award anyway? Aren't they saying they aren't women by saying non-binary? Confusing sometimes.