Is "gender identity" the new "soul"? Seeking a theologian to explain

[MsTiggywinkletoyou]

I'd appreciate an expert explanation of this religious/psychological phenomenon. Some people believe in souls, reincarnation, hell, angels, transubstantiation, etc - concepts that, while deeply meaningful to their lives, are not subject to material proof. Most of us, I'd hazard a guess, don't believe in these concepts. Some people believe in gender identity; most of those reading here don't.

I read the article by Michael Laidlaw, "The Gender Identity Phantom", alerted by another thread. He's an endocrinologist. He flatly says that gender identity "is a fantasy or superstitious belief. I say superstitious, because we are dealing with an entity that has no physical basis in reality." He draws parallels to mass delusions, "the madness of crowds...irrational economic fads such as the Dutch tulip mania and pseudo-scientific belief systems such as alchemy." gdworkinggroup.org/2018/10/24/the-gender-identity-phantom/

I'd like to draw a parallel between a belief in gender identity and belief in the soul. In many societies or cultures that are heavily religious, stating that you don't believe in souls is a disruptive act, ranging from mildly shocking to massively threatening of the status quo. I don't know enough theology to pursue this analogy, but I'd like to read someone who does.

I travel in woke crowds (my employer requests "preferred pronouns", friends cheer on teenagers' mastectomies). I guess I am assuming that most of these colleagues and friends do not believe in souls.

Is "gender identity" flourishing among people who have no interest in transitioning (i.e. boring suburban non-trans people) partly because we as a culture desire something to believe in?

Can someone with theological or philosophical training help me to find a way of saying, "I don't believe in souls or gender identity, and since you are sceptical enough not to believe in souls, you might want to re-think your implicit beliefs about gender identity too"?

No worries, MsTiggywinkle, it is rather long and wordy! :)

I'm very boring about Genderism being quasi-religious. It's a metaphysical belief, so I think it fits very neatly into the category of New Age neo-religion, with a spectrum of adherents - from the entrenched fundamentalists with the #NoDebate and the heresy hunting, to the wannabes on the peripheries who haven't really dug into the meat of the ideas but have accepted a generalized idea of Gender Identity made up of a mishmash of cod science and all the stereotypes we are constantly bombarded with from media, marketing et al.

Yes, it's hard, but not impossible to break through to cultic fundamentalists. But I press this point not to 'deconvert', but because it's an effective lever to prevent legal over reach on the part of Genderist AWAs. If Genderism can be shown for the metaphysical belief that it so clearly is, then it's adherents would have a measure of protection the same as any other believer, but, most importantly, they would have no basis upon which to impose their belief system on the rest of a secular society.

I believe so profoundly in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist that I am sometimes moved to tears by the experience of Adoration. I am entirely free to do so. I am not at liberty to insist that it becomes mandatory for everyone to make the sign of the cross when passing a church out of reference for the presence of God within, and you're all free to think, and maybe even tell me I'm a completely barking Catholic whacko. This is as it should be.

Genderists should be free to believe and make the case for their beliefs. They should not be exempt from challenge, and others most certainly should not be compelled to accept or act on those beliefs.

@CaptainMarvelBunting

Am I allowed to use heart emoticons on MN?

❤️

If there is a transgod, xe is a very careless deity as xe keeps making mistakes by giving out the wrong bodies

Perhaps. My trans partner speaks about it in much the same way, although he borders on atheistic religiously.

I am deeply religious but have noted that atheist liberals, for all their insistence that they are super logical and rational, have replaced god with some modernistic beliefs that are irrational and seem to parallel and replace religion's old place in society. Therapists instead of religious counseling. gender feels in place of a soul, and so on.

As someone who believes in souls I can say that from what I have learned from many sources is that souls are genderless and the reason for feeling 'born into the wrong body' is due to having many previous incarnations as one sex that makes it feel awkward when you live a life as the opposite sex.

I believe in souls, but my belief is that the universe energy is absolute. So you would only experience a particular sex dependent on the physical body the soul resides in. The soul does not have a sex or gender, it just is.

If there is a transgod, xe is a very careless deity as xe keeps making mistakes by giving out the wrong bodies

This is why I love Mumsnet!

this is all very interesting and like a PP I will return to read some of the links when I'm feeling more up to it...
but I wanted to respond to the conclusion of the OP, that those who don't believe in souls are sceptical. This is the problem, I think, that in general people aren't sceptical. Society is generally secular in the sense that most people don't adhere to a conventional religion (we'll leave aside the priveleged role of Christianity in the UK), BUT many many - maybe most- people believe in ghosts, the paranormal, angels, horoscopes and an afterlife. For example, just listen/read what is said after someone dies- they've gone to e better place/they're at rest/they'll be watching over us etc etc
So I think that our society is only superficially sceptical and rational, hence why an idea like 'born in the wrong body" makes intuitive sense to many people and why the notion of gender identity gains traction.
Not sure what we can do about it though.