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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Annanutherwun: BBC World Service, Sportshour IWD Special

15 replies

MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 10:46

...On Now

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172w4pxcth6mmt

Opening piece about transathletes in sport, then loads more of interest.

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MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 10:47

Joanna Harper vs Nic Williams

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MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 11:00

Far and Away the best media discussion so far.

Spoiler Alert: Someone wipes the floor with someone.

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DpWm · 09/03/2019 11:23

Thanks I'll try to catch up later I hope Nic Williams was allowed to speak without the usual constant interruptions!

MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 11:33

Available now on Listen Again....

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Callmejudith · 09/03/2019 11:46

When I grow up I want to be Nic Williams. She is AMAZING

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 09/03/2019 11:48

thanks for posting this. I'll catch up later once I've run some energy off my DC today!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2019 12:16

Is this the one the unknown cyclist was ditched from I wonder...

TimeLady · 09/03/2019 12:37

This reply has been deleted

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andyoldlabour · 09/03/2019 12:50

Joanna Harper said there were 25 people at the IOC committe in 2015 - there were actually 20 according to their published data.
Nic Williams correctly pointing out that Harper's report was a conflict of interest and very flawed, as non elite sportspeople were used and the results had huge time gaps between comparing performance.

MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 13:39

Best Bit is the "I Bet You..." Exchange.

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Scatobrain · 09/03/2019 15:15

MillytantForceit-

The somewhat hoarse Joanna must know something about a plot to liquidate the lovely girly transweightlifter. How else could she be so confident?

MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 16:18

I think McKinnon and Harper are a cop show in the making.

Bad Cop McKinnon calls you names and reports you to the authorities, whilst Good Cop Harpers agrees with you that there is a male advantage but only a little one so why not just let it go?

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WarpedGalaxy · 09/03/2019 16:32

My take away is the ass-backwardness of the whole process. IOC methodology appears to be ‘let’s change the rules before we do any actual meaningful in depth scientific studies. We can always change them back if the studies indicate it’s totally fucked up in 15 years time, and we’ll just carefully ignore those who set records and those who lost out on medals’.

And isn’t the Olympic ethos supposed be ‘Faster, higher, stronger’? Surely it’s about striving for the best performance you can personally meet? How does artificially weakening yourself so you can’t realize your actual physical potential not turn that completely on its head? And how does anyone live with knowing they could do so much more if they weren’t hobbling themselves? No you may not win the medals in the men’s competitions but you can honestly say you did everything you could.

We’re being asked to accept the lie that it’s as worthy for TW athletes to deliberately make themselves ‘lesser’ and not do their best as it is for women athletes to be constantly striving to better their best.

MillytantForceit · 09/03/2019 16:39

Nothing new about discriminating about women without evidence.

The notrious case of the 1928 womens 800m, where it was claimed without evidence that the competitors were exhausted, and so all events over 400m were banned until 1960. (And all events over 1500m remained banned until 1984.)

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Bouledeneige · 09/03/2019 17:41

I've heard a couple of debates on this on R4 this week which included Sharon Davis and two scientists who clearly proved that even if men take hormone blockers to bring their testosterone levels down to 10 (currently - and should really go to 5 to be nearer women) they have innate physiological advantages which cannot be neutralised in elite sports. Women will never have an even playing field if athletes born men take part.

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