Joanna Harper on R4 Today Prog

[MillytantForceit]

Around 7.15 -ish.

Humphries was clueless and didn't know the difference between trans and DSD. Interviewee was marginally more informed than him, but not much.

JH admits there is a residual advantage in a retained male physiology, but says it will vary from sport to sport (evidence?) and should be decided on a case-by-case basis. The lawyers will like that.

Amazing what you can deduce from two sides of A4.

Humphries actually said Caster Semenya was transgender.....he talking utter bollocks. So unaware of the issue or deliberately mis representing.

2 guys talking about women’s sport

I believe JH's research involved 8 transwoman distance runners only.

Four runners, two rowers and one cyclist:

Take a look at this A Level Homework and see what mark you'd give it:

www.sportsci.org/2016/WCPASabstracts/ID-1699.pdf

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1103199647991033863

I'm trying to access the BBC complaints website, is anyone else having any success with it?

While there was plenty of bollocks in it, I thought there were a couple of small positive nuggets.

The interviewee did at least agree that TW who haven’t had treatment shouldn’t compete in women’s sports, (though the small engine in a larger car comparison is utter shite).

John Humphries in dinosaur-mode stugggling with the pronouns will peak more people than an on message presenter.

MillytantForceit

Thanks for that link to Harper's rubbish. Harper was the main advisor to the IOC in 2015 when they made their decision to allow transgender competitors to compete in their preferred gender category, rather than base the categories on "sex".
The sprinter in that paper was definitdely not an elite athlete at 27, and to compare performance at age 39 is just ludicrous IMHO.

Bump for

Teen

You can't ask men who transition to report their times when their legitimacy unequivocally relies on slower times.

There's no eye roll big enough for this nonsense.

I’m with Alice. Joanna Harper was way more nuanced in her views than some of the people screaming transphobic at the brilliant Martina, Sharron, Paula, Tessa, & Daley. I would love to know what she thinks about our voluble cyclist. She has been advising on this for ages.

Did anyone mention US athletics where boys (no physical alterations) are competing in girls athletics and gaining female scholarships to college. It seems to be a big deal (scholarships are gold there) and people involved in sports think it’s unfair - but it just carries on.

This article where Harper is so proud to be the first transgender person to "advise" the IOC on their new rules.
It is the likes of Harper who are responsible for the situation we are now in, and the sports organising bodies for humouring them and their ideology.

archive.org/details/NoHoldsBarredJoannaHarperOnNewIocTransgenderGuidelines

A bit of a side issue, and forgive me for hijacking the thread, but I'm finding it harder to catch up with all the various threads about different items on Today & elsewhere. It can also mean the discussion is fragmented.

What do people think about having a Today/Radio 4 or even a general media thread to discuss all of these interviews in one place?

"Did anyone mention US athletics where boys (no physical alterations) are competing in girls athletics and gaining female scholarships to college. It seems to be a big deal (scholarships are gold there) and people involved in sports think it’s unfair - but it just carries on."

No they didn't mention that, or the fact that we have Kate Weatherley competing now at World level in downhill mountain biking in New Zealand, when Kate started competing against the women last year, just 3 weeks after competing against the men. After being a mediocre male athlete, Kate went on to win the New Zealand women's championship, just months after ID'ing as a woman.

I think a general R4 thread would be a good idea

I worry more for contact sports or sports where contact can be made (netball or football for example) where women of average size could be really hurt by a male sized person.

Being (using old school terms here for clarity) transsexual in women’s sports is one discussion but a larger (and more concerning) one is accepting transsexuals into the arena of women’s sport.

We must be allowed to define the word woman. We must be allowed to draw the line for who is allowed to compete and in what activities.

LordProf Sadly the interviewer was John Humphrys who was so ill informed he referred to Caster Semenya. So no questions on scholarships but Joanna Harper used the argument that if trans people were 1% of the population, then the effect of trans athletes would be minimal. I am just reporting here - not agreeing! I remember a Spanish basketball team was banned from the paralympics after it emerged they did not have a learning disability. Logically, knowing the discrimination and labelling experienced by people with a learning disability, who would think that anyone would want to subject themselves to that ‘just’ to get a medal? James O’Brien on LBC is very pleased with himself but at least he does some research.

Out of interest has James O'Brien covered trans people in sport? Or is he canny enough to know that picking the morally superior side on this issue might actually be too risky?

James O'Brien has covered the trans issue in general several times, but not sport directly. He always comes down on the side of trans.

You can't ask men who transition to report their times when their legitimacy unequivocally relies on slower times.

THIS