Sharron Davies on Victoria Derbyshire 4/3/19

[FloralBuntingIsObnoxious]

Not on yet, article on knife crime on first. Time was this would have been last article to be able to employ the 'run out of time' card.

Let's see how this one goes...

Rocky - good point.

Lucy saying that it won't be a problem in the future because kids will transition before puberty.

WTF?! Yet another example of the complete illogicality of the TRA argument. If pre-pubescent transition is the answer then that is an admission that post-pubescent transitioning transwomen have an advantage. Duh.

Argh! Lucy saying that it won't be a problem in the future because kids will transition before puberty.

Victoria: 'Sure'

This is very concerning.
Male children do not becaome any more female by taking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones than an adult male who has plastic surgery etc in mid-life.

This is a nudge point which has significant implications. There are differences between the sexes from conception.
Serious concerns by increasing numbers of proffessionals are being raised about Tavistock GIDs affirmation approach as well as the pressures on the service from trans lobbyists, parents and young people.

I think it's worth hammering home that their argument about stopping puberty and cross sex hormones is essentially that they want to stunt a child's development to ensure the male child doesn't develop to their full physical potential. That needs lots of sunlight.

Really upsets me when someone comes out with the 'well they'll transition before puberty in the future'.

There is a real worry that these kids are likely to be adults with chronic illness who are going to struggle with things like holding down a job. They are very, very unlikely to be peak heath and fitness athletes.

Yeah it’s like let’s just transition wee boys and girls

Let’s stunt their growth and sexual and mental development for ever

We don’t let them smoke or drink or drive cars

But hey let’s transition them

Wtaf is wrong with Victoria Derbyshire and that idiot Lucy

It still won’t change their sex ever

‘It’s so unfair!’😢

Tough luck - life is unfair and sometimes IT REALLY IS. It doesn’t make it any fairer by trying to bulldoze women aside to validate your own feelings which, let’s face it. NOONE can say what it ‘feel like’ because you haven’t event felt anything else have you?

Seriously doubt that males who identify as trans are not going to be a problem for women's sports because kids will transition early. These medications have horrific side effects and as far as I can see, it is unlikely that they will be able to withstand the extreme stress an elite athletes training regimen puts on the body.

But I do love that argument because as PP pointed out, it's a tacit admission that males do have an advantage over females if your response to that is "well, we're going to stunt the development of male children who identify as trans before puberty, so they'll never develop into the same big strong males who are now causing all this upset anyway". (Aside the fact that neither hormones or surgery change the underlying skeletal structure nor the way muscles attach to the bone, of course.)

There is a real worry that these kids are likely to be adults with chronic illness who are going to struggle with things like holding down a job. They are very, very unlikely to be peak heath and fitness athletes.

Yes. The idea that children who are put on irreversible drugs which have all manner of side effects at a young age, do not go through puberty and possibly have mutilative surgery as well, will go on to be top athletes competing at Olympic level would be absolutely laughable if it wasn't so fucking abhorrent.

It just shows what a fallacy the whole thing is. You really only have to engage your brain for literally seconds on this to see how it doesn't hold up at all.

And grown adults to be just casually saying 'oh well it will be fine in the future because we are just going to drug these kids so they don't go through puberty', it's just disgusting.

This has just made me think about the castrato opera singers in the 18th century who were castrated so their voices didn't break. Obviously they didn't receive any other medical treatment and as a result they were often very tall as they never got the hormonal signals to end bone growth. They exhumed a castrato and studied his skeleton - some info here. Wikipedia suggests that the additional bone growth gave them much greater lung capacity which was ideal for singing too.

I have no idea if the modern equivalent of this prevents these things from happening, it's interesting to me that this has happened in the past and was eventually banned but here we are again.

(Sorry that's a bit random but it just came to mind!)

polarisation - that's the exact thing that came into my mind too. It's not at all random - it's the same thing, but for a different purpose. We look back and think of the practice of castrating boys to keep the purity of their voices as absolutely barbaric. And yet now we have idiots advocating the same thing for a different reason.

I have no idea if the modern equivalent of this prevents these things from happening, it's interesting to me that this has happened in the past and was eventually banned but here we are again.

The private US doctor who Susie Green took her male child to be treated by said in an interview that he had deliberately included some medication / hormones (?) with the 'puberty blockers' because Jackie would have been noticeably tall for a woman.
The Dr and the family seem aware that growth was restricted and seem pleased with the results.

It was concerning anyway but I had presumed the height projection was specific to the projected growth of the child etc.

I think it was on the documentary focussed on Jackie entering pageants.

And yet now we have idiots advocating the same thing for a different reason

Which is why it is so important we do call it what it is: Chemical castration of children. Surgical castration too, if people like Suzie Green get their way (and who had her own son surgically castrated before 18). So yes, surgical castration is not “permitted” before 18, unless you are heavily encouraged to fly elsewhere and get it done. Jazz Jennings was 17.

Castration is historically seen as barbaric - when it was done to castratos, to slaves through history, as “medical experimentation” on prisoners in concentration camps, when it was done to gay men (like Turing).

But now we have TRAs and those who should be looking out for children promoting it as “necessary” for their well being. It is madness, and I can’t believe anyone who is actually looking out for the best interests of children can support this (though some who say they are, do).

You know where else chemical castration is “permissible” or even ordered? For sex offenders in several countries/states, etc.
Either as a punishment itself or as an option to reduce prison terms, etc. People are promoting an act that is done on sex offenders (and even that appears to have more objections by certain human rights groups than the sterilization of children does).

This was bound to happen. As soon as women start objecting to grown men beating them in sport, some absolute dingbat will start to talk about the children as a defence.

Let them.

And let everyone see the way this goes.

Before long, those photographs of the flayed arms and mastectomy scars will be in the Daily Mail.

Sunlight.

Abigail Shrier on Deep Dive (Fox US I think) with Rachel McKinnon. It may have been shared already but haven't spotted it so here it is again, just in case:

vimeo.com/319229534?ref=tw-share

Feels like this women's cycle race that was stopped because the lead cyclist was catching up with them men's race is some kind of metaphor for what's happening in sport more generally