Help with DD and relationships from feminist POV please

[PerverseConverse]

Hi, posting here instead of anywhere else as I'd like a feminist approach to this.

Dd has just turned 12 and has asked a boy out at school. Cue lots of lies about who asked out who, who they were hanging round with, sneaking her phone to text him late at night, looking at porn, disrespectful chat about their parents, he was disrespectful about his ex (an ex at 12 already!), and it was generally not very reassuring conversation. Dd came across as very needy, he said in response to her asking that he hadn't liked her so wouldn't have asked her out himself but figured seeing as she did that she'd be ok as a girlfriend
I'm told he's a lovely boy but after experiencing abusive relationships myself, particularly with DDs dad, then I'm overly cautious and alert to any misogynistic and potentially abusive behaviour.
I know they are only 12 but she's portrayed herself as totally at his bidding. I've just found a note on her bed to him (in plain sight) where she urges him to dump her as she's a loser who almost got him grounded because both me and his mum have read their messages and are not impressed at all, nor with the lies and the porn. She then urges him to let her know if he still likes her and to hug her if he cares but says they shouldn't see each other. She's all over the place and obviously too emotionally immature to deal with a relationship.
She is grounded and had her phone use restricted due to the things she's been doing and saying and we have had several chats about respect, how women are treated in the world, self respect and boundaries but I feel I'm failing. Her dad is not on board at all and let's her do whatever she wants.
How the hell do I navigate this? She's becoming a strong minded feminist thanks to mumsnet I making me one therefore I thought a feminist approach might work best.
I've not met this boy yet due to her being grounded but had said he can come round once she's no longer grounded. I'm not too sure now though after reading how he referred to his mum and ex.

12 ffs!

You are in a bit of a bind. She’s at the age where her peer group have a greater influence than you or her Dad will. I’d counsel against forbidding her boyfriends visit, because laying down the law tends to force vulnerable girls into encounters outside of the home.

Ideally you want to foster open communication with her, and make sure she’s as safe as possible.

Do you know any sensible older teenage girls who might be able to give her wise advice and a bit of a (non boy related) self esteem boost?

No, no older girls. She's just started high school this year and they seem to stick to their year groups.
I've no problem with her having male friends, I preferred male friends at high school and we were always at each other's houses. Still friends now nearly 30 years later.
I just don't like the way this boy is speaking about his ex and mum and how dd is since being interested in him.
The porn really upset me and I'm finding it hard to strike the balance between being protective and allowing her to grow up.

I feel for you, we've just been through something similar - DD's bf was pressuring her to send topless pictures and get involved in schemes to con other kids out of money. A thoroughly misguided kid playing the "cheeky chappie" role to the hilt. We found out through an ordinary random check of her phone. "Luckily" (said firmly tongue in cheek) we have a family member going through an acrimonious divorce after years of coercive control, I think that's been a way of teaching DD about relationship red flags.

I don't know...DH and I banged on about honesty and integrity and told her in no uncertain terms that if she carried on a relationship with this boy beyond contact in class we'd take the evidence to their head of year, who had a duty of care, potentially, to go to the police. Blocked him on her phone, that sort of thing. I can't tell for sure if it's working but she seems honest and a whole lot happier without her phone constantly pinging. Tbf it helps that her mates hated him - can you find out what your DDs friends think?

Her dad is a coercive control pro so we've spoken about this before. Her friends have yet to come back to the house so haven't met them except one. That particular girl is in a long term relationship with this boy's best friend. Dd is very critical of that relationship, taking the mickey, not being nice generally. Bf says the same about it. The lads spend all their spare time gaming. Dd does not game here. No consoles in the house. Not sure what they have in common to be honest! He likes totally different music but she "loves everything about him" She hadn't even mentioned him until two weeks ago!
She's admitted she's trying to be cool and fit in with the cool kids. Ive told her she's fine how she is, to be true to herself, to make various friends from serious clubs at school (as advised by healthy young minds at the hospital when I queried her being autistic).
I wonder if there's any books that might be helpful. We are very open with each other normally and she knows she can talk to me about anything.
I've blocked the boys number and her phone is restricted as much as possible anyway after the porn incident!

Maybe I'm fearing the worst because of my own history (emotionally abused and raped by boyfriend when I was 14-16; felt it was expected to have sex with boys and saying no got you dumped; abused in every way possible by DH; took me until around age 40 to develop decent boundaries on how I was treated) and am being too strict. It's a tough call and exH does no parenting at all.

I'm really proud of her tonight as she's come home and told me he's not been treating her very nicely (basically being rude and wandering off when she's talking) and has been throwing things at her friend because he knows it winds up the friend. DD has told him to stop it or "they're through" I'm really proud that she's standing up for herself and her right to be treated with respect but that she's also standing up for her friend too. He's got one chance apparently. She's a people pleaser normally who isn't good at voicing her feelings to those she's not secure with so I'm really chuffed.
Our chats about relationships and friendships over the past year (since I split up with my Bf as he wasn't treating me right; she was bullied in year 6, friendships lost for me and her with lots of emotional upheaval) has obviously had a positive effect. The divorce too and our discussions around what's acceptable behaviour in a relationship and what isn't and how to be true to yourself.
I feel I've had so many fails as a mum but this is one of my successes.
Thanks for your help

Well done to your daughter!

There is a great bit in Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft about red flags in relationships, including some specific mentions of teen relationships, that I've earmarked to give to my children when they get old enough. It's in the chapter called 'How Abuse Begins'.

Free PDF of the book here

What is with the throwing things at friends - my DD's ex (hurrah!) did that too! It sounds like you're doing all the right things, well done to you both.

I meant to come back and mention the books I've read - I'm honestly not sure if they've helped as they've been more about female friendships (not something DD1 really has trouble with; DD2 is another story!). Anyway, "Queen Bees & Wannabees" by Rosalind Wiseman I found helpful in analysing my own childhood friendships. There is a newer edition out for dealing with social media but I haven't got to it yet. Rachel Simmons' Odd Girl Out and The Curse Of The Good Girl again weren't ideal for DD1 but I have a feeling I'll be revisiting in a few years for DD2. Mothering and Daughtering by Eliza Reynolds was an interesting one you can read together.

I haven't found anything good on teenage relationships yet and I'd really, really like to see something on dealing with pornsick boys, entitled boys, figuring out whether you're bi or lesbian...I didn't have to deal with any of that til I was in my 20s so I have no idea how 13yos are coping.

12 ! Blimey. My dd is 11 and also in year 7. There is nothing like this among her friendship group. We live rurally which may help.
They aren’t having “relationships” at 12, so I found your references to his “ex” a bit odd, it sounds as though you are giving it more weight that it deserves perhaps ? At this age they are simply playing at being boyfriend /girlfriend . That in itself can ramp up the drama, sometimes they are acting out stuff they have seen in adult relationships.
It is good that she is standing up for herself, but don’t equate a two week childhood flirtation with the dynamic of an adult abusive relationship. You are teaching her about kind relationships and what isn’t kind, and that will hopefully help her in her friendships.

Re the porn, she is 12, a child, she shoudn’t be seeing that ! I would take away her phone. My dd doesn’t have one, not all her friends have them either.

The Gift of Fear is a great book which I wish I’d read as a teenage girl, it would have saved me from some bad things.

Not exactly a relationships guide but helpful for showing why boundaries are important, for vividly bringing home why you have to get over the female socialisation to be nice, and will help sharpen her ability to sniff out wronguns.

There is also a version of the book written for parents to help their children internalise the principles of staying safe, called Protecting the Gift. I haven’t read that but maybe it would be helpful if The Gift of Fear isn’t a suitable book for her- it’s a long book aimed at adults and it describes some disturbing crimes so it’s not for every 12yo.

The Gift of Fear is a good book, but far too graphic for a 12 year old. There are sections that still prey on my mind, not in a helpful way, and I read it as an adult.
Better to read it yourself and then talk through the themes with a child or young teenager, it can be quite harrowing reading it.

It's fairly clear from what you write that she is playing at having a relationship. She sees the relationship dramas in soaps etc and imitates them because she doesn't yet understand that relationships are not about those things.

I've basically said the same thing as SirVix, never mind.