Is it homophobic to not want sex with clitorises and vaginas?

[IamThereforeIdontIdentify]

So if it's transphobic when lesbians do not want female dick, does that make me homophobic for not wanting to have sex with women? Are straight men homophobic for not wanting sex with a penis?

The Emma Thomson et al. letter made me think of this. If TWAW and lesbians therefore have to suck female cock or be a bigot, would all those signatories and people who agree with that also agree that straight women are homophobic for only having sex with penises? Are THEY homophobic for only having sex with one type of genitals? Are straight men homophobic if they only have sex with women?

I'd love Emma Thompson, Mhairi Black et al. to answer this. Failing that, anybody who supports their letter, can you explain the difference?

I think it only matters if you are not validating transwomen’s needs?

It’s beyond depressing to find that idiot Mhairi Black defending TRAs. She’s a lesbian, ffs! Has she not been subjected to the disgusting cotton ceiling remarks by TRAs trying to force themselves on lesbians?

This whole TW gay or straight lesbian man gay lesbian woman sex gender lady cock thing makes my head hurt. I can never sort it out. It's best when I simply think: TW = man.

Having a much needed twitter break at the moment but am sorely tempted to log in and ask these two these questions

In theory, yes, the ideology says that if you don't see the person separate from their biology and go with their personal choice of sex identity you're transphobic. You're supposed to regard any sex as being inside any physical body type, so if you say your sexual choice is men, but some men have clitorises and vaginas and you would reject them because of this bodily feature then that's a problem and you need to get over your 'social hang ups'.

So yes, officially you're very naughty to choose a sexuality for yourself that excludes a person based on their body instead of their self definition. Sexual preference for body types is unacceptable, and that incidentally makes homosexuality unacceptable.

In practice and reality it's a far, far more complicated situation than that, as this is a narrative to disguise a more basic problem: males who wish to be perceived as women, who are in fact heterosexual so have very clear bodily preferences themselves, who therefore see women exclusively attracted to women as a group excluding them from sex and acceptance as women that they feel they deserve. It is about wishing to have their perception accepted and given precedence over the wishes of a lesbian woman to perceive them as male and therefore not lesbian or a potential sexual partner.

As a heterosexual woman attracted to male bodies you may be validating for the wrong reason (seeing and being attracted to male properties instead of female properties) and therefore are not likely to be subject to anyone wanting you to adapt your sexual preferences for their benefit.

In theory yes but actually I think you’ll find it only applies to what TW want.

Could I ask please if one of you could direct me to some decent reading material to try get my head around all of this. I have an 18yo dd who I’ve so far been able to answer questions for (what’s gay, what’s transvestite, trans sexual etc) but it’s seems every day there’s a new gender, non-gender, female cock stuff and I don’t get any of it.

To my mind you are born a boy or girl, grow to be a man or woman. Like opposite sex - heterosexual. Like same sex - gay. Like both - bisexual. Simple I suppose and at only 40 I feel ancient for not knowing all this new stuff ie im a man but want to be a woman so let me in your changing room I demand or else you’re phobic and horrible and by the looks of it breaking the fucking law

I need to know what the hell is going on! I don’t care who sleeps with who or what appendages the want to have or not have or clothes they like. I really don’t but I don’t want to be forced to allow men in a space I feel comfortable in. I worry for my dd reading threads on here. I could really do with educating myself on the whole thing without reading material that’s over my head.

Any suggestions? Oh and please don’t eat me alive. I am trying to get my head around it all.

female dick

[chews own ears off]

Straw have you found the Break It Down For Me thread here? It's a helpful one.

Lesbians are transphobic and I’m a lesbophobic penis fetishist. Just sort of washes over you after a while.

I haven’t @Knick but I will. Thanks for the suggestion.

[grin]@Hipster

I don’t know. Maybe I’m worrying about nothing because I’ve misunderstood some things I’ve read and watched on tv. For instance I watched a debate section on a show one night a .. well I don’t know what to call them .. a person who acknowledged they were born a girl but who was now not a woman or a man but a new gender I guess. It was all very weird and they expected everyone to refer to them in non-gender terms ie not ‘she’ or ‘her’ or ‘miss’ or whatever.

That’s just one example but there have been a few where people look very obviously one sex but get shitty when referred to as that sex. How do you know? To me there are men and women but I realise I’m wrong I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to know from just looking.

Dd is a lovely young woman. Whether nature or nurture she has grown to be kind, accepting and non-judgemental. She’s fun and out-going once she gets to know people and like me she doesn’t give a shit who wears what or who shags who. My worry is now she may be put in uncomfortable positions with men, who are women in their heads, and I don’t think that’s right but I’m not sure how to share that with her should she ask because obviously it’s just being accepted by society and governments who are putting laws in place to allow it. I read a thread her not long ago about a school allowing a opposite sex student stay in boarding accommodation because he or she identified as something else, I don’t even know.

Sorry I’m just rambling now. I’m just going to go read that other thread and hopefully learn something.

First of all there is no such thing a "lady dick" or 'lady penis"

Only males have a penis / dick.
Only females ( and some intersex ppl) have a vagina.

Only females can be lesbian
Therefore males, even if dressed as woman, cannot be lesbian,
Therefore lesbians are free to state they do not wish to date, or have sex with males (even if castrated) as they are MALE.

It is fairly simple logic. Trans women cannot state they are lesbian, they are males who dress as women. BIOLOGICAL MALES - if they have sex with biological males it is technically MALE HOMOSEXUAL SEX (gay sex)

Time to stop any confusion -

No one has an irrational fear of "trans" people - "trans phobia" is just a term that trans community use to undermine common sense> it is not a real thing.

Homophobia is similar. No one has an irrational fear of homosexuals. We are all free to have sex with any other consenting adult. Regardless of their sex.

It is just respect for women, respect for lesbians that is being undermined to appease sick perverted fantasy of confused men.

Your confusion is entirely understandable. Allow me to re-educate you! If biological sex or genitals matter to you when it comes to sex then you are a penis/vagina fetishist, poor you. We fall in love with the person (can we have a vomiting emoji please MNHQ) not their genitals silly!

Just a thought:

Have Bisexuals ever insisted that any and all persons of either sex must have sex with them or they are being biphobic?

Those would be my thoughts exactly @Sam but apparently you can be male sex but female gender like in your head so if a man with a penis says he’s a woman he can be in the same changing room, toilets as me or my dd. That doesn’t feel right at all but all but everything I’ve seen is pointing to woman having to accept it because the laws will change and allow it.

I don’t want to get changed in front of a man regardless of his feeling like a woman. Nor do I want to pander to kink dressed up as a woman by using the same toilets. (A thread on here the other day said some men like to here women weeing) I feel very bad for saying that because I’m generally a person who values all other people rights but there has to be a line. It’s really bothering me.

This bothers me but the trying to figure out who’s a man and who’s a woman is just going to have to be dealt with if someone ever gets shitty about it because I can’t see how you can tell and if that makes me ignorant then so be it.

I didn’t even know some men thought they could be lesbian. It’s no wonder I’m confused

The people of Lesbos all claim to be Lesbians.

They would prefer you said Sapphist.

Too many grammatical errors to fix. Sorry.

Honestly, I am still smarting from the knowledge that Keeley Hawes and Stana Katic won't at least consider me as a sexual partner. It's deeply wounding. I know they may well be heterosexual women with no desire for intimacy with female bodies, and as it happens, I'm married anyway, but the lack of open-ness to at least gaze into my soul is very invalidating.

indeed - @thisistheLastStraw...

it is just daft trans delusion. In real world you cannot be a male & suggest you are female by gender NOR sex.
you see man has a penis - last time I checked a penis is MALE both by gender and sex.
Therefore HE is male by gender & sex.
His chromosomes are MALE by gender and sex..

the word PENIS = MALE

yes i have a bit of both, but i am not a 3rd sex nor a 3rd gender. I am intersex - an human with ambiguous genitalia AND XXY chromosomes and disorder.

These men are suffering from a delusion, a fantasy that they are women, and as they still feel attracted to females they think they are LESBIANS - No No No.

They are castrated males - EUNUCH -

Right, I’m out (I’ve no idea what a saphist is)

And I am bisexual and it does (or it did, I’m married to a man now) matter to me what genitals and sex are involved. I don’t see how it doesn’t but willing to be wrong in everyone’s eyes for that.

I’m not cut out for this conversation. Men are men and women are women to me. I know that’s not a worldly view and I’ll namechange after this but fuck it I can’t be arsed trying to see other genders and not be a transphobic so and so. It’s too confusing.

Well, the UN think that being bothered about the sex of your partner is bigotry and it’s discrimination not to have sex with people you’re not attracted to.

So if I met a guy at a bar, fancied them and had a good evening and then they told me they were ftm trans I’d have to be okay with that because they were a nice person otherwise I’m a bigot?

Are you certain that’s for real, Hermione?

I just looked up UNAIDS and it’s the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS (UNAIDS) - not sure why they’d be getting stuck in on trans issues.

Yup, its real...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3521757-United-Nations-runs-ad-campaign-saying-its-discrimination-not-to-have-sex-with-transpeople

It’s definitely real, they tweeted it again on 1st March