I just want to say one thing about Martina

[Fairenuff]

Martina made a statement that a male person could become a transwoman by taking the necessary hormones and compete in female sports. This is a true statement and I don't think it's being challenged.

She also said that they could win money, medals and sponsorship. Again, not challenged as far as I am aware.

However, she went on to say that they could then transition back to being male and this is the part where Rachel McKinnon et al are calling her transphobic.

So, the bit I want to say is this. The Olympic Committee who set the rules to allow transwomen to compete with women also state this:

2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.

It's written in the guidelines that men can transition back to being men after four years.

How can they say that Martina's statement is transphobic and this one is not. They are both acknowledging that detransitioning can happen.

What's the problem?

It's devastating to their case?

Martina also called them cheats.

What's the problem?
The basic problem is that she she female, one who won't let male bodied people take things they want from her.
That's it, it's about control and power.

The point is they can grab all the prize money and medals, then go straight back to being male and 'have babies' if they stop competing.

She hasn't said anything that isn't true.

But remember, the truth is transphobic.

Horsewithnom she did say that it could be cheating.

But I don't think that was in relation to the detransitioning. I think it was because by having bigger bodies, more speed, strength, etc. they weren't in the same class as women.

"Martina also called them cheats."

Well she was right.

The point is they can grab all the prize money and medals, then go straight back to being male and 'have babies' if they stop competing.

Yes, that's how I read it too. And the IOC say the same.

So why is one transphobic and the other not?

But remember, the truth is transphobic.

This cannot be repeated enough.

But I don't think that was in relation to the detransitioning

It was in relation to blokes using transitioning as a farce, to take a bunch of prize money from women, then going back to before after 4 years. This is permitted within the rules.

If this were to happen in years to come, presumably we wouldn’t even know - legal sex status change being protected in various versions of national laws and all.

But remember, the truth is transphobic.

Yes but what I am saying is that Martina and the IOC both state the same thing. So why is one transphobic and not the other?

Did TRA's just not notice or something?

why is one transphobic and not the other?

One is being said by a woman.

Exactly what captain said

Ah that can't be it.

Biology is transphobic. As is truth.

But I don't think that was in relation to the detransitioning

Ah, no, of course. I'm glad she said that tho' as it's plain and simple language that everyone understands. Unlike the weird science the transitioners speak which, I think, will be gobbledygook to most people.

That comment was probably ill advised as it gave McKinnon & Co a tiny bit of ammunition to desperately hang on to and draw focus away from everything else she said which was rational and spot on. No ones buying it tho - Evan Davies certainly didn’t.

Cheating = male bodies with lower testosterone competing against women.

Winning money/medals and going back to being a man = detransitioning after winning.

Rachel M says this would never happen. So why have the IOC made provision for it by stipulating a four year time limit?

And why does no-one say the IOC are being transphobic by even suggesting that males could detransition after winning?

The point is they can grab all the prize money and medals, then go straight back to being male and 'have babies' if they stop competing.

I don't think there's anything to stop them having babies. Just as long as it was done with a lady dick and they are the "mother".

It's only official detransition that has to wait four years.

OP "And why does no-one say the IOC are being transphobic by even suggesting that males could detransition after winning?"

well, I imagine that the lobby isn't ready to tackle a group like the IOC yet. Targeting one person is much easier.

so I'd say give it time, they might try it...but you are using logic, which is not really a factor in this argument, let's face it!

2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.

Sporting purposes? What does that mean? Competing as a man? With lowered testosterone? How?

It also means they fully accept that someone can go back to being a man ten minutes after they've taken the medal, as long as it's not for sporting purposes.

So yes Fairenuff, they wholeheartedly acknowledge that men can detransition after winning.

All these global athletes making a mistake about their identity. Tut.

Your mistake was trying to apply logic to the beliefs and actions of the cult. This will only make your head hurt.

To escape the label of transphobic you have to be an absolutely massive fan of cocoa puffs, so almost everyone is a potential target. However, they tend to reserve that line of attack for people who are trying to stop them do whatever they want - the word is used a political weapon. The IOC are basically letting them do whatever they want (apart from the hormone restrictions, which they will absolutely come for next - they are already testing the waters on that) so are not currently a target. Martina Navratilova is a target because she is a high-profile well-respected woman challenging their narrative and they are scared she might inspire the rest of the sporting world to grow a backbone.

It also means they fully accept that someone can go back to being a man ten minutes after they've taken the medal, as long as it's not for sporting purposes.

Yes. So a sportsman no longer anywhere the top of his game and without much hope of making money from participating, instead of retiring could, according to those rules, transition to compete against women which would effectively allow him to extend his sporting career and continue to earn for a good few years.

Then, when ready to retire from competing as a TW, they can transition back to being a man just as soon as they liked.

And if this is one of those things that 'will never happen', why have the IOC made provision for it in their guidelines?