Feminist praxis or just plain rude?

[EatCashews]

Just came across this article on 'patriarchy chicken':

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2019/02/how-play-patriarchy-chicken-why-i-refuse-move-out-way-men

Can't decide whether the author is making a valid point or being a solipsistic pain in the arse for her fellow commuters.

I also don't understand why men don't constantly bump into each other if they're socialised not to give way. Are these kinds of stereotypes really helpful?

Undoubtedly, there is an issue with male space entitlement.

However...

Short people get more trampled on account of being below eye level.

Do short people consider this before making unpredictable changes of direction when close to tall people?

Do short people consider where the pointy bits of their brollies are, relative to the eyes of taller people? Seriously, this is not fun for tall people on rainy days.

Gosh ! How right you are OP. I live on a road that has a college on it and the kids walk up through town then up my road to get to it.. I’m always stepping off the curb to get round their smoking/noisy ness Im not going to do this anymore.. I was brought up to give way to elders etc.. when did it stop being a thing ?

It'd be very interesting - if maybe a bit bruising - to do more experiments on the height/age/sex/confidence levels of people passing on the pavement. I'm writing (a poem) at the moment on the geometry/etiquette of walking past strangers, so I'd be grateful for any research sources.

The secret is to not make eye contact

I'm going to try it with my eyes shut, humming loudly.

Would be interesting to hear the views of tall women on their perspectives

When in crowds or busy places with smaller female friends, I lead the group and use my bigness to barge through

I'm in London too, and I've stopped automatically getting out of people's way. More than happy to make space for anyone who looks like they might be struggling, but someone who's striding towards me or deliberately blocking my way? No.
And I definitely don't move for the ones who weren't walking straight at me, but change direction so that they are.

I commute into London and think about this every day. The other day I was wondering if anyone has set up a camera to observe pedestrian flow to study people's behaviour.

It's not just men not giving way when you're walking towards each other, it's men using their extra height and strength to be first to the gate, first on the train, push through a crowd of lesser beings to get to where they're going faster because clearly they are more important because they have a penis.

Some research on pedestrian flow mentioned in this other NS article MostInept : www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/i-decided-start-walking-down-street-man-spoiler-it-didn-t-go-well

"In the 1970s, experimental social psychologists became interested in the same question: did male and female pedestrians exhibit different behaviour in urban spaces? And their conclusion was a resounding “yes”. Social psychologist James McBride Dabbs Jr was involved in numerous studies that found that women spend more time “scanning” pavements for obstacles than men (it has been suggested that this is partly because women try to avoid meeting men’s gazes, possibly in fear of provoking intimidating responses). It was observed that women are more obedient to guidelines governing pedestrian behaviour, and that only 10 per cent (compared to 23 per cent of males) would stray outside of painted boundaries of crossings.

Psychologists became interested in “interpersonal distances” – the space that we grant one another as we move around – and it was observed that male pedestrians were given a wider berth by both male and female passers-by, than women. At traffic lights, female pedestrians were seen to be much quicker to move out of the way of men arriving beside them, than vice versa. And men waiting at bus stops were given more space by both female and male pedestrians. Further research showed that men walk faster, and with more power, than women; that men are more likely to pursue their course despite threatened collisions; and that men’s motion is less circuitous, less likely to be “perturbed” by other people or vehicles than women’s."

Interesting 53rdWay, thank you so much!

Really interesting to hear from everybody here. I'll make a point of paying more attention in future. And I suppose I'm quite tall.

I've noticed that in America, everyone walks on the right....

I noticed this when I was working in America and kept nearly bumping into people till I realised it was me that was wrong - because I do tend to walk on the left, and my perception is that most people in the U.K. are also likely to. However, my guess is that this 'rule' breaks down to the point of uselessness in more multicultural areas, especially London and other large cities.

So glad to find this thread.

I’ve noticed this more and more since I passed 45 and let my hair go its natural white. I’m invisible to many men now, in queues, on pavements, on tube station platforms...

I was at a deli counter a few weeks ago and a young well-dressed man with a loud public school accent moved towards me with his girlfriend, clearly expecting me to make way for him. I stood my ground and he actually tutted at the fact that he had to move around me!

Whatever your sex, gender, race, religion, colour, creed or sexual orientation, can we all come together as one and tut at people who cycle on the pavement?

I do experiment with this occasionally. The most recent incident, I just stopped dead on the narrow-ish pavement because the only alternative was stepping onto the road and I'll be damned if I'm doing that for two large able-bodied men! (I would for a wheelchair or pram.) They looked startled and stepped either side of me. Height could be a factor, I am short and they were tall.

I happily do the mutual side-step, but I no longer feel I have to step aside and cede my path to those who steamroll through. I'm short but quite solid, plus I'm paying attention - I haven't come off the worse from these encounters. Mostly they move at the last second.

can we all come together as one and tut at people who cycle on the pavement?

I have been known to play chicken with cyclists who are riding where they shouldn't - only if there's somewhere I can jump out of their way if necessary, but to date it never has been.

ErrolTheDragon

I honestly believe a fair few of them would only even remotely consider they'd done something wrong if they collided with another cyclist.

In Canada people mostly walk on right, as in US, but that falls apart where people are walking two, three or more abreast, or on narrow paths, in supermarket aisles, narrow staircases, etc. I am petite and slender and definitely have noticed men in particular (along with groups of teenagers and running children) won’t give way if in these situations if they mustn’t.

I used to move over “first” always but once I got into my 30s I stopped doing this so willingly (still will move for someone who clearly has mobility issues, or who shows indication of sidestepping themselves as a mutual sidestep). I was at the gym this morning and was turning a corner (turned first) and a man walked right at me from other direction like he expected me to move and you could see the surprise register in his face that I was not going to so he had to actually walk a step over to his right to get bye

Here the biggest thing that throws people off though is deliberate walking on the “wrong side” (ie on left). It really throws people off here - men or women - if you walk up or down the “wrong” side of the staircase for example. I had to do this for a while after a leg injury & needed railing for support and the number of people who just seemed to not know what to do was interesting!

Do short people consider this before making unpredictable changes of direction when close to tall people?

Do short people consider where the pointy bits of their brollies are, relative to the eyes of taller people? Seriously, this is not fun for tall people on rainy days.

Yes, I do. I am 5'2" and until recently very slight with it (7 stone when wet!). I have spent all my life thinking about those around me, moving to one side, keeping my umbrella out of faces etc. I have now, in middle age, reached the heady heights of 8.5 stone (still only 5'2"!) and have got more stubborn about not ceding passage to taller people, but I would still always consider where my umbrella is. It's just common courtesy.

I have regularly found myself frustrated with my otherwise considerate DH, that he is utterly oblivious to me moving around him. He can see me walking towards him to put something away in the kitchen, but does not move until I ask him to. The other way round, I automatically and instinctively shift to accommodate what he is doing.

Do short people consider where the pointy bits of their brollies are, relative to the eyes of taller people? Seriously, this is not fun for tall people on rainy days.

Yes, I’m under 5 ft 2 and am really aware of my umbrella when I use one. I find it fairly unwieldy and stressful to use as I’m not great with spacial perception and find it hard to dodge people’s faces in crowds. The upshot of this is that I tend not to use an umbrella and make do with a hooded coat!

A string of random thoughts triggered by various posts:

1'm 5'1". I stopped using a brolly because it's too stressful trying to manage it down a busy street. Hats work reasonably well in the rain.

When we walk together, I move fast through gaps and DH gets trapped behind. I don't step aside for people so much as dart round them. Most of the time I don't think they notice.

DH probably reads as a low status male. He finds people expect him to move out of the way. He's stopped doing that and had plenty of shoulder barges, so yes, men do do it to other men as well.

Unrelated to the pavement cycling posts, my observation as a cyclist is that pedestrians will often step out in front of me if we have made eye contact. Generally, as soon as a see a ped in a position where they might step out I check behind me in case I need to swerve suddenly. Almost always, they step back when I break eye contact.

My knee condition flared up this weekend so now I need to use my cane and am slower than usual. This means I can't move quickly out of people's way. On my way to work this morning it was quite common for women to move around me or make space for me to get by. Men either glared at me or tutted when they had to move round me me or wait for me to pass and a couple just barged past.
I even saw a man spot me heading to the office door and speed up so he could get there first. Not to hold the door open for me but so he didn't have to wait behind me. Door did close in my face.

I've noticed this. It does have one advantage though.....I'm great at weaving through the crowds to get to the bar

I think it also explains the manspreading thing. Many men are just used to taking up the space they want.

I was sitting at a table at the weekend at a training event. A random bloke came to join our table part way through and immediately manspread with his knee pushing into mine.

I turned and told him to move his leg. He did but looked most surprised and put out.

I've also noticed that when cycling on the pavement (it's officially mixed use) that I ring my bell well in advance to let people know I'm there without them jumping out of their skins, maintain friendly eye contact and thank them for letting me pass.

My dh doesn't do any of that. He rides slowly etc, but he either stops (he's good at making way for others), or goes past without communicating at all.

Then there's the blokes who zoom on the pavement and get grumpy that I'm not cycling at their speed and either try to overtake when there's no space and aren't happy when I won't be forced into the wall/pedestrians etc or come right up behind me and start ringing their bell aggressively once they realise they can't pass.

I noticed this a while back, and being on the shorter side i'm sure that made it worse. I just started walking tall and confidently. I don't look people in the eye, instead i look behind them or next to them so there's no silent signaling (accidental or subconscious) from me that I'll let them pass. I've bumped into quite a few men this way and not apologised (not first anyway). It's such a small thing to get wound up by but i do it anyway and feel slightly empowered somehow.

Boyfriend is quite short for a man and shy. When we walk together I feel him instinctively moving away from incoming people while I tend to keep walking ahead (from previous similar thread).
But... he'll hardly move out of my way when I'm doing things around the kitchen, as a previous pp. I did point out he kept being on my way, funnily, before this was mentioned in the thread.