Woman left doubly incontinent after violent sexual assault refused benefits

WokerThanWoke · 2019-02-20T20:12:38+00:00

[[https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/woman-left-doubly-incontinent-after-14025534?utm_source=sharebar&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sharebar]] Did anyone see this on PMQs? I didn’t, just saw the headline on the Apple news app.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/02/2019 20:18

Fucking hell

Awful story obv

Makes me remember as well around how men and women view sex attacks differently. Male perspective seem to see it as "unwanted sex" eg being forced to eat chocolate - many seem to have little awareness of the pain and damage that rape and other sexual assaults can cause.
You read such awful things about women and girls having to be surgically repaired.
I suppose that porn celebrates the extreme so many men just think women are indestrctable when it comes to being penetrated?

Sorry this is off the point but I just remembered that "being forced to eat chocolate cake" comment and it set me off down a different path.

AncientLights · 20/02/2019 20:22

God that is indeed horrific, boggles the mind. I don't get your chocolate/cake refs though Nothingontele, who said that?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/02/2019 20:31

some ukip bloke I think it was

not about thsi case

just made me think of it

how so many men say things "bad sexual etiquette" and generally seem to just not get at all womens perspective but i suppose, why would they

OvaHere · 20/02/2019 20:34

So depressing. On top of abuse like this that has been happening since forever we now have to contend with what sex based protections we can cling to being rolled back also.

MrsTerryPratcett · 20/02/2019 20:56

I always explain it with male rape.

One male friend could not see, at all, how unwanted sex with a man was basically the same for me as it would be for him. He was convinced it was somehow 'different' because I'm willing to have sex with one man.

AncientLights · 20/02/2019 21:12

MrsTerry and that attitude is so very dangerous, isn't it? If you're willing to have sex with one man, then you'll be fine with just anyone. I remember that from my youth: once a boy discovered you weren't a virgin, well, you'd do it with anyone right? And if you're not a virgin, you're free to all comers (sorry for the term). All this is erosion of boundaries. I read something similar about the case of a transman who was convicted for something sexual with a woman, I think it was Carlos in Scotland somewhere. He'd used some prosthetic and the woman had thought it was a penis, as you would if you thought you were with a man. Then there were the comments about 'why is she bothered what it is?' Just unbelievable.

Ereshkigal · 20/02/2019 22:42

One male friend could not see, at all, how unwanted sex with a man was basically the same for me as it would be for him. He was convinced it was somehow 'different' because I'm willing to have sex with one man.

Yes I've had the same argument before.

MrsTerryPratcett · 20/02/2019 23:40

It's a horrible attitude and incredibly dangerous.

And that crossing over from 'maiden' to 'whore' in some men's minds is all too common as well.

PlumPorter · 21/02/2019 08:37

One male friend could not see, at all, how unwanted sex with a man was basically the same for me as it would be for him. He was convinced it was somehow 'different' because I'm willing to have sex with one man.

Yes, I've have that argument before too.

The idea that most people are heterosexual so it's a greater assault if a man is raped by a man than if a woman is because it's sex outside their normal preferences or that it's "different" because penises are supposed go go into vaginas but not arseholes is quite common I think.

Oldermum156 · 21/02/2019 16:10

But most men now apparently demand/trick women into anal sex on the first date from what I understand so that blows that argument right out of the water.

Tulipvase · 21/02/2019 16:18

Really Oldermum? Do you actually believe that?

I did see this on PMQ - and there was a chorus of how disgusting it was. PM assured the MP that it would be looked into - really hope it is.

butteryellow · 21/02/2019 17:12

I'm in my 40s, but when I was still dating in my late 20s, I was asked by every bloke I had sex with if we could do anal, and more than one, despite me declining, decided to try to have a go anyway.

And yes, the number of people who think that a (hetero) man being raped is worse than a woman being raped is awful - they use the line about it being an insult to their masculinity - where the only answer is to exclaim 'whereas being raped is so very feminine!'

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/02/2019 17:33

It doesn't blow any argument out the water

All it means is that men who used to think vaginal rape was no big deal for women, will now think it of anal too

Makes no difference to their understanding of being raped by another man as they think of being penetrated which is not what happens to men when they have anal sex with a woman

If anything it's made it worse

Similar to normalising of choking etc and men getting away with murder

HelenaDove · 22/02/2019 18:10

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-sussex-47324184

Original poster

WokerThanWoke · 22/02/2019 20:07

Oh Helena

OP posts:

Vixxxy · 23/02/2019 12:48

One male friend could not see, at all, how unwanted sex with a man was basically the same for me as it would be for him. He was convinced it was somehow 'different' because I'm willing to have sex with one man.

Yes, one of my 'mates' came out with shite like that quite regularly. I don't get how on earth they can think like that..

Sheelala · 23/02/2019 13:07

Yes, I have heard men say this too. They fundamentally do not understand it. It's not a case of just being "willing" to have sex with one man, which would just suggest that women just put up with it, they actively want it. The physical aspect in this case would make most men understand that something violent and also deeply psychologically damaging had happened. This is why if there is no physical damage it would be to them, just having something you quite like anyway done to you.

I found that mentioning getting wanked by an older man as a teenager is more effective in persuading them of how awful it would be. They like wanking right ? Their partners might do it to them ?

its a very upsetting case. I hope she gets her allowance.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 23/02/2019 13:54

I think they make these false equivalences in their heads as otherwise they would have to admit things were bad and then maybe feel bad or have to do something and that's all quite tricky

Easier to turn a blind eye with crap excuses

Like how wiht street harrassment loads of men say "I'd LOVE IT if women came up to me on the street and asked me out or shouted that I looked good!"
They NEVER reverse it properly and imagine being aggressively propositioned by a man twice their size.

They know really, they aren't stupid.

Of course there's also the issue that lots of men have in their lives proceeded with sex where they've had to do some fairly strong "persuasion" or worse and most aren't prepared to see what they did as wrong therefore they have to say that sort of thing isn't bad really. And it's large numbers of men who have at some point done something dodgy esp as young men.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 23/02/2019 13:55

Or grabbed a woman in a club or shouted something when out with mates etc

It's mostly self defence I suppose

Sheelala · 23/02/2019 17:13

It's mostly self defence I suppose

I'm not sure about that, I think they genuinely do not understand, at least ones that I've spoken to. They would counter the "larger man doing it to them" with the " but I would fight to the death to stop it" and in any case it wouldn't be a physical act they would ever engage in for pleasure. This particular case would count in men's heads as "rape rape" I think, it's where there is no phyiscal damage that causes the most "confusion". I.e. "if a large man tried to bugger me he would have to knock me out first" etc. I guess what I am saying is there there is a genuine gulf here in experience at least IMO.

Vixxxy · 23/02/2019 17:22

I should be grateful to be groped in pubs apparently, because its a compliment.

It shows that I am desired apparently. Rather than that the guy is just a pervert. Also I am really lucky, as if it happened to them they would be so glad.

Simultaneously though, when I point out its just gross and entitled and the amount of guys who do it is depressing, suddenly, the same guy saying I should like it, has been groped by hundreds of random women, women are actually worse just men don't say anything about it

Sheelala · 23/02/2019 19:34

DH was groped a fair bit in his youth, squeezing of bum usually or in what would maybe now be considered inappropriate behaviour I remember one (drunk) girl coming up to him and making tiger roaring sounds at him while clawing the air.

It didn't bother him in the least. It's completely different for men, it just is, so there is no point in pretending it's the same.

HelenaDove · 23/02/2019 23:23

Talking Pictures TV have been showing the Armchair Theatre plays from the early 1970s

The premise of the first one A Bit of A Lift was related to what we are discussing here.

HelenaDove · 23/02/2019 23:27

Just checked you tube.

Here it is.