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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lewisham Deptford CLP Women Stand Up

15 replies

lewishaml · 14/02/2019 19:47

I'm sure lots of you are aware of the recent issues in the Lewisham Deptford CLP - it's all kicking off this week.

On Sunday at the Women's Forum, a motion supporting Ann Henderson was put forward and the LGBT Forum issued a statement in response which was tweeted here: twitter.com/SarahxDorman/status/1094620002165182471

Last night a response to their statement was posted on the CLP facebook page by the CLP Women's Officer and the Secretary of the Women's Forum and it's a great read. I've left the comments on the end so you can see the initial response.

As I've had to create a new account for this as my usual account has identifiable info on, I can't upload them to MN for 48 hours so I've put them on Imgur:
imgur.com/a/OZucCzo

If anyone wants to upload the images in a reply to this thread, that would be great.

OP posts:
sorenipples · 14/02/2019 20:14

Has that post to Facebook been deleted? I had look and couldn't see it. Very ominous if so.

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 14/02/2019 20:14

First one

lewishaml · 14/02/2019 20:25

Are you a member of the 'secret' CLP facebook page sorenipples? It's on there, rather than the public one.

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 14/02/2019 20:27

Great statement. Unpleasant comments...

sorenipples · 14/02/2019 20:35

Ahh. I was looking at the public one, which has the LGBTQ statement on it.

Thanks for sharing this. Very brave of the chair to put forward a statement. Obviously certain people will be gunning for her now.

VeniceAllan · 14/02/2019 20:59

Following this! 👀

VickyEadie · 14/02/2019 21:01

Labour really is both antisemitic and massively misogynist now.

But I think what's more disappointing is the women supporting the men in this.

NoseringGirl · 14/02/2019 21:25

The statement is fantastic, really balanced and well thought out. The comments, especially from the vice chair were depressing though.

userschmoozer · 14/02/2019 21:31

Instead of posting screenshots which can be difficult to read on mobile, I used FreeOCR to transcribe both letters.

The original letter makes certain allegations;

A statement to be read out by the Chair of Lewisham
Deptford CLP Women's Forum against the motion:
“Lewisham Deptford's LGBT Forum is dismayed to learn
that a motion submitted entitled ‘Support Ann
Henderson’ has been submitted to this meeting.
"We stand for and in solidarity with women and lesbian,
gay, bisexual and transgender colleagues alike - many
of whom define as both women and LGBT+ - in our
campaigning on LGBT+ issues locally and within the
Labour Party. We note and commend Ann Henderson's
work within the labour movement but that she has also
shared content on social media that is of concern to us,
particularly around trans issues. We expect
disagreements to be dealt with in a comradely way.
"Calling on Lewisham Depttord Labour Party to
reconsider its affiliation to LGBT Labour is as pointless
an overreaction as it is self-defeating and it is easy to
read this motion as being homophobic, biphobic, and
transphobic. Our LGBT+ members would welcome a
more proactive and robust approach to creating an
environment that is welcoming towards all LGBT+
members at the Women's Forum and through the CLP,
which is why it is so important that our long-delayed
anti-transphobia motion to GC is heard soon.
"Shortly after the NEC elections, Ann Henderson shared
an event online about the Gender Recognition Act. The
event was hosted by the Conservative MP David T.
Davies who has consistently voted against LGBTQ+
rights in Parliament, and spoken against them in his role
as an MP. The event was run by groups associated with
the anti-LGBTQ+ far-right movement in America, who
regularly spread misinformation. With this in mind it is
very easy to see the call to disassociate our CLP from
LGBT Labour as very sinister.
"We are worried to see a resolve which seems intended
to let people prejudiced against trans people have free
reign to be transphobic online. with no consequences:
while the same resolve suggests trans people shouldn't
be able to call out what they see as their oppression. We
see this as an odd understanding of free speech; and
we point to Labour Party Conference in 2016, where
prejudice against trans people was made a disciplinary
matter for which people could be suspended and
expelled - the fact that people already have been
expelled from Labour under this rule shows that Labour
prejudice against trans people was made a disciplinary
matter for which people could be suspended and
expelled - the fact that people already have been
expelled from Labour under this rule shows that Labour
recognises transphobia as a transgression of the party's
Rule Book in practice. We would like to highlight the
disproportionate amount of abuse trans people face in
their lives, especially trans women. Statistics suggest
nearly half of trans people under 25 will attempt suicide.
"We are disappointed that neither the proposer nor the
seconder of this motion sought to discuss this motion
with us first. Further, we note a number of other hostile
amendments to our anti-transphobia motion that is due
to be discussed at our GC meeting shortly and we are
saddened that neither the proposers nor the seconders
of these amendments sought to discuss their concerns
with us first. Members of the LGBT+ Forum have
repeatedly invited other members to discuss trans
issues. including at Women's Forum meetings. and our
door is always open.“

BillEllson · 14/02/2019 21:31

Tweeter Bob From Brockley @bobfrombrockley in a thread commenting on a video of Tuesday evening's @LewDeptLabour CLP meeting about Venezuela noted:
"...But the worst thing was the way, in the short Q&A at the end (mostly As rather than Qs to be fair), the Venezuelan women there were cut off and silenced, while non-Venezuelan white men were indulged as they lectured them about their own country."
twitter.com/bobfrombrockley/status/1095655149639475200

userschmoozer · 14/02/2019 21:31

A response from the CLP Women’s Officer and the
Secretary of the Women's Forum to the recent
statement on behalf of Lewisham Deptford Labour
Party LGBT Forum, which was also shared with this FB
group;

Dear colleagues,
We think women members will be concerned about
the central premise of this statement: that women
need to consult with men before holding or
promulgating an opinion. This is best exemplified in
your statement ‘we are disappointed that neither the
proposer nor the seconder of this motion (our motion
defending Ann Henderson against unwarranted and
unfair attacks) sought to discuss this motion with us
first’. Would you address other Forums in the same
way? We would be astonished if, for instance, you
were to send a similar statement to BAME Forum
about a motion on a subject of their choice. This was
a motion proposed by women, in support of a woman
elected to very senior office in the party, a woman
who had been nominated for the NEC by our own CLP.
It was not a motion about trans rights. Contrary to
misreports Twitter users may have seen, it was
debated in a respectful, comradely and informative
way at Women’s Forum on Sunday. Kat Fletcher,
Deputy Regional Director, was present throughout the
meeting. A suggestion that we should invite the LGBT
Forum (overwhelmingly male) to meet with us for a
discussion was not accepted by the meeting.
Women from the LGBT Forum are welcome to initiate
further discussion within the Women's Forum. All
women, are of course, invited to every Women's
Forum. However, we are not comfortable about a
meeting with men, who have widely advertised their
strong opinions, and now appear to wish to tell women
what they should think.
Your statement makes similar comments about not
being consulted in advance by those women (and one
man) who have put forward amendments seeking to
clarify those aspects of a GC motion on transphobia
which appear misogynistic and sexist, in order that
everyone should feel comfortable in supporting it.
Perhaps we could consider the provisions of the
Human Rights Act? No woman can be compelled to
believe, or say that they believe, something they know
to be false. It appears, and we hope you will correct
this impression if it is wrong, that you have defined
transphobia in such a way as to transgress that Act.
Many women members have indicated to us that they
are frightened to voice their opinions in other
meetings of the party for fear of being labelled as
transphobic. We believe that it is appropriate that
Women's Forum provides a safe space for women to
speak up.
Members of the LGBT Forum who have worked with
us on various campaigns over some years will know
that we are not transphobes or homophobes and that
we support the rights of Trans people to live their lives
free of harassment and discrimination.
However, the demand for self-identification of gender
and the adoption of sexist assumptions about gender
and sex, that underpin that demand are, in the view of
many, taking us back to the 1960s and threatening
hard-won women's and gay and lesbian rights.
In that light, we see no need to justify to men, our
support for organisations, like A Woman's Place UK,
who oppose the self-identification proposal in its
current form; but in the context of supporting the
broader principal of equal rights, and solidarity with,
all LGBT people, including Trans people.
You are right to question whether disaffiliation from
LGBT Labour might send the wrong message. The
wording of the motion did not actually call for this,
rather that it should be debated. These things do
require care. Perhaps LGBT Labour might have
considered that before embarking upon a highly
personal, vindictive, and ill-judged attack upon such a
high-profile feminist within the labour movement?
We are surprised that you repeat common slurs about
an association with the far right in the USA. Either you
know those assertions to be false, or you have
mistakenly accepted what you've been told. We are
surprised that you think that we, or the left wing and
Labour/Marxist women who take a critical view of
aspects of gender theory, would knowingly have
anything to do with them. Describing this as ‘very
sinister’ smacks of David lcke and conspiracy
theorists and warrants an apology.
Women are leaving the Labour Party, or dropping out
of active participation, over this issue. Stonewall has
haemorrhaged its women's membership. Only
yesterday, fourteen high-profile Trans women, some
of whom were instrumental in achieving the original
Gender Recognition Act, very publicly left Stonewall.
We see no sign that you appreciate the
disappointment that women who campaigned for gay
rights, including campaigning against Section 28, not
for a few minutes, but for decades, feel about the
continued vilification of feminists that some of the
new generation of LGBTQ activists (primarily men)
participate in, day in day out. Your silence on that is
deafening.
In sorrow and in anger.

morningtoncrescent62 · 15/02/2019 11:15

I'm not sure I've quite followed all of this, and I've not seen the original motion, but as a Labour member (in Scotland) I'd like to ask whether there's anything we can do to support the LDCLP women who I'm sure will be having a hard time locally. Would solidarity motions be helpful or simply wind things up further? Anything else?

BettyDuMonde · 15/02/2019 12:52

That is one amazing and powerful statement! I will be passing it on to our CLP women’s officer (although I hope she will have seen it already, she is GC).

pamish · 16/02/2019 23:34

Oh look. A Lewisham councillor chips in.
twitter.com/twoshadesofhope/status/1095806691462074370
Thread response is encouraging

Lewisham Deptford CLP Women Stand Up
nettie434 · 17/02/2019 00:22

I especially liked this one from Thefishgod
There's a substantive difference between the approach of transactivists to that of other rights activists of the past: transactivism seems to involve damaging the rights of others who remain oppressed, ie women and lesbians, not just extending rights to a new group.

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