TWAW except they are not.

[irnbruforlife]

TWATW. If they go down the route of a GRA they are treated as a woman (with exemptions). It was distinctly noted (but for the life of me I cant remember by whom, I wish I could) that the GRA created a legal fiction, that is an assertion that is accepted as true for legal purposes, even though it may be untrue or unproven. So outwith legal purposes (so everyday life, social media etc) TW are actually biological men. To be kind/respectful I'd refer to them as TW. Why has this important notion of legal fiction been swept aside and TWAW being forced down everyone's throat as biological reality. It makes no sense. If TWAW, then why does the GRA have exemptions? There would be no need.

I agree and it helps nobody to have a debate about whether they are real women and try to pretend that nobody is fully male or female and that we have no way of determining sex by looking at someone. We all know what TW are. They are not intersex and there is no ambiguity over what they were born as. We can then sensibly discuss where the limits of treated as a woman lie and try to find something that works for both sides. But trying to suggest that biological sex is a fiction is just idiotic.

If TWAW, then why does the GRA have exemptions? There would be no need.

Isn't this why TRAs want to make everyone agree that TWAW? To remove the exemptions in the EA?

No one actually believes TWAW.

It's Trans-substantiation.

An artcle of faith you are required to sign up to even though you know it to be anti-rational and wrong.

TW cannot be W.

The only arguments to the contrary are either:

A W is anyone who says they are a W

• circular. If you ask me what a smeerp is and I say 'A smeerp is anyone who says they are a smeerp' that gives you no useful information and no way to actually distinguish smeerp from non-smeerp. It renders the word meaningless.

or:

A W is someone who likes pink and sparkles and long hair and being sexually objectified

• which, as this is FWR, I hope we all agree is bullshit. Also, if this were the truth, why divide W from M at all? Why would people who like pink need separate changing rooms, prisons, sports competitions? It would surely follow that everything should be mixed.

That this isn't the argument made proves that TW know they aren't really W. They just want access to our spaces because they feel special and entitled, or because of AGP.

Personally I think it's bloody rude to re-define someone's word out from under them. Especially as a linguistic trick to parlay yourself into places you aren't legally allowed to be.

A woman cannot be a TW, therefore TW are not women.

I blame politicians for allowing this mess to go unchallenged. (Apart from David Davies who I think is the only one who has dared to speak out.)

Do you think some people are just trotting out TWAW and vehemently defending it without actually thinking about the realities of it?

yes. Its virtue signaling

Do you think some people are just trotting out TWAW and vehemently defending it without actually thinking about the realities of it?

Do bears shit in the woods?

Do you think some people are just trotting out TWAW and vehemently defending it without actually thinking about the realities of it?

Yes, this was me a few years ago! I would never want to hurt anyone so went along with it. I'm a leftie / liberal type so that's the side I thought I should be on. But I knew they were men really, as we all do.

Over time I couldn't deny the evidence any longer. We'll all hit peak trans in our own time.

’The GRA created a legal fiction’
I always associate that with Kathleen Stock, Irnbruforlife who very politely says that legally and socially, the law treats transgender women as women except in very specific circumstances. The problem seems to be saying this extends to biology. It is not ‘erasing’ people or questioning their right to exist; it is saying there are limits. We all have limits in our lives. I don’t demand a stairlift on Mount Snowdon even though I certainly couldn’t climb it on my own.

The massive emotional weight behind TWAW is that TW don't believe it themselves. So they're hoping, very hard, that if they just close their eyes and get everybody to agree to shout out the alternate fairy story, maybe it will magically become true.

It's a quest for validation and men are always insisting everybody else prop up their egos. You'll notice transmen are not creating the same kind of deafening row. As far as I'm concerned, there are few things more stereotypically man-like than the willingness of the TWAW crowd to not notice or care that their egostroking requires women to suffer even more physical danger. It's all the proof anyone needs that they're not women. Not remotely.

I agree with you OP

If TWAW, then why does the GRA have exemptions? There would be no need

Isn't this why TRAs want to make everyone agree that TWAW? To remove the exemptions in the EA?

I think this is the crux of it. Hence all the insistence, the enforced insertion of the gap to imply that trans is an adjective, etc, etc.

It's a quest for validation and men are always insisting everybody else prop up their egos. You'll notice transmen are not creating the same kind of deafening row. As far as I'm concerned, there are few things more stereotypically man-like than the willingness of the TWAW crowd to not notice or care that their egostroking requires women to suffer even more physical danger. It's all the proof anyone needs that they're not women. Not remotely.

Yes, exactly.

TW dont believe it. They have to live with their condition everyday so they know the realities and limitations. But everyday people (not the TRAs specificially) who chant TWAW, I cant fathom how they havent logically reasoned it out. I know plenty of well educated (mostly) women who have bought into TWAW and its like they have to ignore sane biological reality/logic to go with it. That said, if you can manage to have a civil discussion with TWAW believers, you can help them get to the logic and truth (have managed it on 3 occasions thus far).

I used to assume that when people said TWAW they really meant ‘the polite and politically correct thing to do is treat TW as W in a social setting’

When I (finally) realised that some people used it to mean ‘there is literally no difference at all between women and transwomen, not even in a medical setting, and to think otherwise makes you a morally reprehensible person who should die in a fire’ is more or less when I reached the peak of summit trans.

"A woman cannot be a TW, therefore TW are not women."

Brilliant!
Simple to understand, logical and biologically correct.