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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cancelling Lib Dem membership

49 replies

DepartingLibDemmer · 12/02/2019 13:47

I've been meaning to do this for ages but just had an email reminding me to renew and thought I'd seize the day.

I responded to the email simply asking how I could cancel and got one back saying

"Thank you for your email which comes to me as Membership Officer.

I am very sorry that you have decided to cancel your membership and we are obviously very sorry to see you go. May I ask if there is a particular reason you have decided to cancel your membership and if there is anything that could be done to persuade you to stay."

I am currently laid up in bed with a flu type illness and cannot put together a beautifully worded response detailing the issues with the LBTQ twitter feed, the taking on of Aimee Challenor despite the Veritas report casting doubt on Aimee's decision making abilities, Lynne Featherstone's call for women to get out of the Lib Dems if they don't support TWAW but would like to take this opportunity to let them know why.

Can I be very cheeky and ask if anyone's got a similar letter they've already crafted to hand so I can edit accordingly? My cotton wool stuffed head isn't up to the task at the moment!

OP posts:
Trousering · 12/02/2019 14:37

Mmm, I'm sure we could crowd write this for you.

Anlaf · 12/02/2019 17:38

Probably should have its own thread but please enjoy "the sanctimonious fuckery of the Lib Dems"

www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/12/trans-orthodoxy-is-poisoning-politics/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

theOtherPamAyres · 12/02/2019 18:08

Here's a link to an email by @welshgender crit

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496404-Message-from-Lynne-Featherstone-Lib-Dems?pg=2

Freespeecher · 12/02/2019 18:15

Some of the more sensible Labour may soon split off to make a Lib Dems Plus but I can't see them being particularly GC. You may be politically homeless for a while I'm afraid.

DepartingLibDemmer · 12/02/2019 18:22

Gah, I wish I'd seen that sooner! I've put something together by cribbing from various articles and mumsnet threads but if I've missed anything major out, please let me know!

Thanks for your swift response.

I've been concerned about the Lib Dem's stance on women's rights for awhile and after receiving an email from Lynne Featherstone that stated "I also have a message to those people who believe they can restrict trans women’s rights, deny their human rights, or exclude them from women-only spaces in the name of feminism: You are not feminists. Your views are not welcome in the Liberal Democrats" I feel that I can no longer support the party.

I am worried that women are losing the right to define themselves and it is us women who are losing our rights to sex-segregated spaces. There are no rights that trans people currently lack, and I certainly am not wanting to deny them their human rights. Preserving some sex-segregated spaces is not removing rights from trans people, it is simply protecting rights of women. There are some women's spaces that must be segregated by sex, not gender, in order to preserve the safety of women and to allow us to participate in a fair society. The reason we have sex-segregated spaces in prisons, hospitals, sports and other areas is because women are oppressed on the basis of our biology and are also vulnerable because of this. 98% of sexual violence is perpetrated by men and it would be naive to think that predatory men would not take advantage of a system of self-ID - one where they merely had to proclaim they were a woman with no medical gatekeeping or even surgery - to gain access to vulnerable women. This is not saying that trans people are a threat but that the system of self-ID has serious flaws that need consideration.

In sports, allowing male bodied people to participate in women's events, even if they've had sexual reassignment surgery (and it is estimated that over 80% of transwomen don't), will be allowing people who are on average, taller, stronger, and faster and have greater endurance due to their larger, stronger muscles and bones as well as having more circulating red blood cells to take compete against women. This will be the end of women's sports and is one inevitable conclusion from accepting that transgender women have the right to be treated exactly as women in all scenarios. Insisting that transwomen are women in every respect means that women who have been raped will not be able to recover and heal in male-free spaces. Saying it is bigotry to distinguish between women and transwomen will mean that women - some of whom will have been abused, or have cultural sensitivities, or who simply wish to exercise informed consent over their bodies - will not be guaranteed a woman if they request a female healthcare practitioner for intimiate care. None of this is to discriminate against trans people but to fail to acknowledge that there are differences will cause women suffering, set backs and strips us of our current rights. There are solutions that can protect both groups of people but these are not being sought and it is women who are expected to cede their legal protections.

I am also concerned that in the rush to appear progressive, the Lib Dems are abandoning due diligence, for example apponting Aimee Challenor as the Diversity Officer in Coventry when a recent independent investigation found that Aimee Challenor, a transgender activist and candidate for the Greens’ deputy leadership, committed a “serious error of judgment” by appointing her father, David, as her agent at two elections even as he faced trial for kidnapping, raping and torturing a 10-year-old girl.The inquiry criticised the Greens for treating the matter “primarily as a communications one” and “failing to see the safeguarding issues that arise” and found that the party’s “support for diversity” did not remove the need for someone like Aimee Challenor to have proper “training and support” in a leadership role. I am very concerned that despite this, the Liberal Democrats have so quickly - a mere 28 days after this report has been published - appointed Aimee Challenor to a role in the Party. I fail to see how these serious issues can have been addressed in so short a time frame and fear that this will arise in more safeguarding failures, this time under the watch of the Lib Dems.

With so many concerns ranging from safeguarding to eroding women's opportunities,I am therefore not happy to be labelled transphobic for simply trying to find a way that balances the needs of women and trans people that doesn't come at the cost of women. If we can't define women on the basis of our sex, which is the root cause for our oppression, then we will not be able to tackle sexism, which still has a huge and crippling impact on over 50% of the population.

Liberal traditions rest on the value of debate and bringing people along with you by exchanging views, not imposing a particular stance on others. Liberalism is a tolerance for others and understanding a broad spectrum of ideas and looking for a way to accommodate different values and beliefs; an understanding of education through engagement and understanding the fundamental principles of democracy. To have such an important topic declared undebatable, when so much is at risk, runs counter to my understanding of what it means to be a liberal and I am dismayed that women in the Liberal Democrats such as Natalie Bird are attacked for voicing their concerns.

I cannot, therefore, support a party that is liberal only in name, and that dismisses women's concerns as hatred and refuses to discuss this. I am sad to leave as I have only every voted Lib Dem and enjoyed helping the local party with leafletting, canvassing and telling, and will miss the camaraderie of working together for a shared goal. However, in it's current state, I cannot in good faith continue to help a party who has unambiguously stated that I am viewed as intolerant and bigotted and as Lynne Featherstone made very clear, a party in which I am no longer welcomed.

OP posts:
ValWiggin · 12/02/2019 18:47

That's brilliant! What can you do without the cotton wool?! :)

Babdoc · 12/02/2019 18:50

Great letter! Any chance of getting it published in the press?

misscockerspaniel · 12/02/2019 18:54

Hell's teeth - you did that with a flu like illness?! It is a brilliant response.

AornisHades · 12/02/2019 18:58

That's a hell of a lot clearer than the slightly garbled speech I gave to the chair of my CLP about not renewing my Labour Party membership 😁

MilletSentToForceIt · 12/02/2019 19:00

Blimey, I want some of your brand of cotton wool please. That’s awesome!

(I did just notice final para- I have only every , should be ever I know it’s pedantic, but in something going outside Mumsnet I thought you would like to know.)

JamPasty · 12/02/2019 19:02

Fucking hell that's an incredible letter!! Rock on!

NoseringGirl · 12/02/2019 19:08

Brilliant letter! I'd say I look forward to their response but I don't think they'll have much to say. I left with a heavy heart a few months ago after complaints went ignored (both with the issues you've mentioned and some local sexism) and I barely got an acknowledgement. They still send me emails though Hmm

Kazzyhoward · 12/02/2019 19:11

Surely just writing back with the words "vince cable" is enough! What were they thinking?

DepartingLibDemmer · 12/02/2019 19:14

I livened up with the help of some medication and to be honest, it was actually quite cathartic to find an outlet for the rage and disappointment (along with the mucus).

I also really cannot stress enough how much of this is cobbled together from other posters from FWR threads and newspaper articles - I've lifted bits from Andrew Gilligan, Fairplay for Women, the Telegraph, We Used to be Lib Dem Women and Mumsnetters so I don't think I can claim credit for all of this. That's why I can't send it to the press as apart from lacking the bravery it's not all my own work!

Thanks for the typo alert - it's much appreciated. I'll send it tomorrow so it goes in at working hours and let you know if I get a response. If there's anything else that needs adding, please do say!

OP posts:
nauticant · 12/02/2019 21:11

But most people cobble together a load of cobblers. That letter is great OP.

Voice0fReason · 12/02/2019 22:34

Outstanding letter. I feel exactly the same.

MrsSnippyPants · 12/02/2019 22:40

That is a great letter OP. I think all I would add is something about Layla Moran being able to see people’s souls Grin

nettie434 · 12/02/2019 23:31

It is a great letter PainInTheEar. Not sure how Lib Dems send out renewal letters but perhaps make sure the local party & HQ both get your email. I saw some tweets from a Labour membership secretary who sent out a ‘good riddance transphobe’ response to people who’d cancelled their membership. This way you are more likely to get a response.

That is a great letter OP. I think all I would add is something about Layla Moran being able to see people’s souls.

For MrsSnippyPants, you could put at the beginning, ‘Thank you for your swift response. I guess this means Layla is Moran unable to see into people’s souls when they cancel their membership.’ Not really suggesting you do this - it would spoil the letter’s tone and content which is perfect.

ignatiusjreilly · 13/02/2019 09:30

Perfect letter. It lays the issues out so clearly. Nicely done!

ignatiusjreilly · 13/02/2019 09:31

I'd be interested to see the response, if you get one. Ex-Lib Dem voter here too.

nauticant · 13/02/2019 09:48

Just in case you wanted to sent them anything in addition OP, you might be interested in this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3506926-This-debate-needs-violence-says-Lib-Dem-candidate

It is remarkable, although not surprising, what's being discussed in the dark corners and becoming normalised in the Lib-Dems.

DepartingLibDemmer · 13/02/2019 11:47

OK, have added Layla Moran and Sarah Brown. I think it might be a bit waffly but it's in!

Thanks for your swift response.

I've been concerned about the Lib Dem's stance on women's rights for awhile and after receiving an email from Lynne Featherstone that stated "I also have a message to those people who believe they can restrict trans women’s rights, deny their human rights, or exclude them from women-only spaces in the name of feminism: You are not feminists. Your views are not welcome in the Liberal Democrats" I feel that I can no longer support the party.

I am worried that women are losing the right to define themselves and it is us women who are losing our rights to sex-segregated spaces. There are no rights that trans people currently lack, and I am certainly not wanting to deny them their human rights. Preserving some sex-segregated spaces is not removing rights from trans people, it is simply protecting rights of women. There are some women's spaces that must be segregated by sex, not gender, in order to preserve the safety of women and to allow us to participate in a fair society. The reason we have sex-segregated spaces in prisons, hospitals, sports and other areas is because women are oppressed on the basis of our biology and are also vulnerable because of this. 98% of sexual violence is perpetrated by men and it would be naive to think that predatory men would not take advantage of a system of self-ID - one where they merely had to proclaim they were a woman with no medical gatekeeping or even surgery to be regarded as one - to gain access to vulnerable women. Self ID gives any man the ability to claim they are a woman and we will lose the protection afforded by sex-segregated spaces, which we have in the first place not because we think all men are violent but that we cannot tell which ones are and this is an appropriate safeguarding measure to reduce risk. I am not reassured by Layla Moran's comments in a debate about violence against women that "[she] see[s] someone in their soul and as a person. [She] does not really care whether they have a male body." Sadly I lack the ability to see into people's souls and cannot tell if a man is a genuine trans person or someone taking advantage of access to women.This is not saying that trans people are a threat but that the system of self-ID has serious flaws that men can exploit and it needs consideration.

In sports, allowing male bodied people to participate in women's events, even if they've had sexual reassignment surgery (and it is estimated that over 80% of transwomen don't), will be allowing people who are on average, taller, stronger, and faster and have greater endurance due to their larger, stronger muscles and bones as well as having more circulating red blood cells to compete against women. This will be the end of women's sports and is one inevitable conclusion from accepting that transgender women have the right to be treated exactly as women in all scenarios. Insisting that transwomen are women in every respect means that women who have been raped will not be able to recover and heal in male-free spaces. Saying it is bigotry to distinguish between women and transwomen will mean that women - some of whom will have been abused, or have cultural sensitivities, or who simply wish to exercise informed consent over their bodies - will not be guaranteed a woman if they request a female healthcare practitioner for intimate care. None of this is to discriminate against trans people but to fail to acknowledge that there are differences will cause women suffering, set backs and strips us of our current rights. There are solutions that can protect both groups of people but these are not being sought and it is women who are expected to cede their legal protections.

I am also concerned that in the rush to appear progressive, the Lib Dems are abandoning due diligence, for example appointing Aimee Challenor as the Diversity Officer in Coventry when a recent independent investigation found that Aimee Challenor, a transgender activist and candidate for the Greens’ deputy leadership, committed a “serious error of judgement” by appointing her father, David, as her agent at two elections even as he faced trial for kidnapping, raping and torturing a 10-year-old girl.The inquiry criticised the Greens for “failing to see the safeguarding issues that arise”. The investigators found that the party’s “support for diversity” did not remove the need for someone like Aimee Challenor to have proper “training and support” in a leadership role and I am very concerned that despite this, the Liberal Democrats have so quickly - a mere 28 days after this report has been published - appointed Aimee Challenor to a role in the Party. I fail to see how these serious issues can have been addressed in so short a time frame and fear that this will result in more safeguarding failures, this time under the watch of the Lib Dems.

With so many concerns ranging from safeguarding to eroding women's opportunities,I am therefore not happy to be labelled transphobic for simply trying to find a way that balances the needs of women and trans people that doesn't come at the cost of women. If we can't define women on the basis of our sex, which is the root cause for our oppression, then we will not be able to tackle sexism, which still has a huge and crippling impact on over 50% of the population.

Liberal traditions rest on the value of debate and bringing people along with you by exchanging views, not imposing a particular stance on others. Liberalism is a tolerance for others and understanding a broad spectrum of ideas and looking for a way to accommodate different values and beliefs; an understanding of education through engagement and understanding the fundamental principles of democracy. To have such an important topic declared undebatable, when so much is at risk, runs counter to my understanding of what it means to be a liberal and I am dismayed that women in the Liberal Democrats such as Natalie Bird are attacked for voicing their concerns. I am also concerned that as recently as yesterday, Sarah Brown, the former Lib Dem Cambridge City Councillor for Petersfield and current member of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats executive wrote "violence worked for the suffragettes...” “the gloves are off” and "you know when things started to change for LGBTQ+ people in the first place? When our predecessors started to smash shit up after one provocation too many". I find it alarming that a serving Lib Dem member is advocating violence against people simply for wanting to discuss how new legislation might affect their rights.

I cannot, therefore, support a party that is liberal only in name, and that dismisses women's concerns as hatred and refuses to discuss this. I am sad to leave as I have only ever voted Lib Dem and enjoyed helping the local party with leafleting, canvassing and telling, and will miss the camaraderie of working together for a shared goal. However, in it's current state, I cannot in good faith continue to help a party who has unambiguously stated that I am viewed as intolerant and bigotted and as Lynne Featherstone made very clear, a party in which I am no longer welcomed.

OP posts:
NoseringGirl · 13/02/2019 11:58

Fantastic letter. I would try and copy in as many people as possible including your own local party. This is such a good overview of the issues in relation to the Lib Dems that it needs to be heard.

AnotherBewilderedQuoll · 13/02/2019 12:25

How exactly did A Challenor get hself appointed Diversity Officer so soon? When LibDems had specifically assured members that AC would not be eligible for official position in the party until AC had been an ordinary member for two years? It was supposed to be time allowing h to "heal" and blah blah

Threewheeler1 · 13/02/2019 16:34

That is really, really, really good Pain.
Wish I was that eloquent Sad but I tend to resort to 'fuckity fuck' when someone pulls my vinegar string.
I am now desperate for a new party that is GC and out about it.