Being articulate

[Companion42]

I've been lurking on mumsnet for years now, with the occasional post, and I'm always impressed by the witty and articulate posters (especially on this part of the site 😉).

I've recently started going to real life feminist meetings and talks as well as becoming more active on twitter and I'd like to start more posts here

My problem is that I rarely seem to be able to express myself properly. I either waffle, sound very simplistic or don't seem to be able to get my point across at all despite being reasonable intelligent. (I think).

Any pointers, please?

I largely don’t make sense, but I don’t let that hold me back. The worst comes to the worst, you’ve written something, move on..

Introduce the topic that's on your mind as a kind of unfinished starter for ten and see if someone picks it up and runs with it.

I would say: don't prevaricate.

Edit edit and edit. I make no sense at all first time round, and often never achieve it.

I've had my 'I wonder' ideas summed up in a way I'd have liked to have done (but didn't) and with apposite quotes.

Some very sharp minds here, and people don't have a go if you try to share your thoughts in good faith so I wouldn't worry about chipping in.

I would echo just having a go and contributing. The benefit of MN in particular is that you can always name change and start again if you really feel you need to. Which I'm sure you won't.

Also, practise! Practice makes perfect, or improvement anyway. Those articulate people you hear in meetings who seem to be able to talk in paragraphs are probably saying something they've said many times before in other places. Meetings are generally welcoming and forgiving to people unused to speaking.

And if you say something here on MN, blink and it's three pages back, so don't worry about it.

Your post, btw, is crystal clear.

First, think straight. Understand your own thinking. Imagine the argument or your question for others in your head first.

In other words, know what your point actually is before you start verbalising the point.

Avoid apologising for having an opinion, especially a potentially unpopular opinion, especially before you've even stated the opinion. Similarly avoid front loading with caveats. Avoid aiming for everyone to agree with you. Avoid aiming for a mic drop moment where everyone agrees wholeheartedly that you are a genius who has this nailed at last. In a debate consensus is mostly bloody annoying.

Google persuasive writing and speaking.

I am prone to thinking aloud so if my audience (usually work related) will have limited attention (almost always) I make sure I start with the conclusion, i.e. my actual point in one or two sentences. Then embellish with layers of logic, then if there's time and anyone cares how I came to that thinking.

Mostly I go for stating the conclusion with the briefest outline of the logic then await questions and responses before deciding on the next thing to say.

Practice makes perfect.

I’m not very articulate either, not when I’m writing/ speaking on my feet. I get picked up on MN for misinterpretation of poor word choices.

But I waffle on anyway. I have found FWR section of MN much more forgiving than other parts of MN, especially AIBU.

I am a TwitterBot 5000 with enhanced wittinessity in the ad-free premium version.

I found listening to the guilty feminist podcast helped me enormously. Also reading MN.

My problem is that I rarely seem to be able to express myself properly. I either waffle, sound very simplistic or don't seem to be able to get my point across at all despite being reasonable intelligent. (I think).

Talking here is important, how you actually talk isn't.
Doesn't matter if you are not funny or not educated.

Concern about getting it right and feeling intimidated can impact how we express ourselves to others. These feelings can be inhibiting and/or mean we add extra uneccessary justifications etc.
I suspect many people who are admired for their contributions also sometimes feel similar self-doubt and regret.

Good thread OP.

The nicest change for me about this whole topic becoming more publicly known about through discussion in the press etc is that I can use other more articulate people's points to express my point of view.

It is true that the more you read on the topic, the easier it becomes to break it down and make sense of it to others. The hardest bit is convincing people who are unaware that this batshittery is actually happening and not tin foil hat territory. Again the efforts of a tiny few have begun to swing the press juggernaut in favour of exposure, awareness and cold harsh analysis and away from the madness of no debate and precious feelz.

This trend will continue and as public awareness grows and discussion spreads wider, articulation of the issues will become ever easier.

I too waffle. I like the idea of leading with a conclusion and will use that as a tactic from now on. I also get very upset and that is not helpful when trying to present rational facts so must find a technique for dealing with that. I do use the phrase "women are allowed to be angry" because we are and as soon as you really think about that and how much of this is about women just not doing as we are told and being nice and budging up in a way men are never expected to it really clarifies the misogyny.

My go to points are the penis bearer statistics and also the statistics for male violence (to refute NAMALT).

In my head I always have a very good point someone made on here. If you are in favour of self id then you just haven't thought about it hard enough yet.

‘If you are in favour of self id then you just haven't thought about it hard enough yet.’

...and be aware that the TRAs counter argument is

If you are not for self Id and gender bollox, you need to be educated.

Hi OP I'm fairly new here too (changed log in info and new username this week after data breach. Still don't know why I changed username ). I too tend to word some posts badly and I'm not very articulate however as a previous poster said if others can see you're posting in good faith most posters see beyond and are not just forgiving but very welcoming and encouraging.

Agree there are some v wise owls on this board in particular (one is already here!) and I won't name them but I'm quite in awe of their knowledge, experience and how compelling but also non-threatening they are with their view. This board has been a great help in giving me courage to not only call out misogyny in real life but challenge and discuss it with others. As mum to a DD I really value having that confidence so I can model it for her.

So I'm doing a great example of waffling now - welcome to an amazing place OP and I look forward to seeing more of you!

Great thread OP, and its also great to see so many people in favour of open debate.
I try to keep my own comments short and to the point. And I try not to be so much in awe of the more articulate posters that I never say anything

That s true.

But sometimes it is the different styles of writing that really gets the point across.

Prime example being POsie Parker’s ‘woman: adult human female’ .

I find my brilliant point of view that sits in my head looks a tad pointless on the page.

MN and the amazing women who post here encourages me to keep going.

You will get constructive comments here but you also have to watch out for the sharks.

This helps to make me really think about what I am trying to say.

It would be a terrible thing to say nothing at all. Particularly for fear of getting it wrong. Everyone has a head full of thought and only by exchanging these can we learn and grow beyond our own horizons.

That's why no debate is such a non starter!

I would also say: don't waste time apologising in advance for your opinions/style/whatever - just give them!

I have a policy of never arguing with anyone on a thread. Let it go if someone says my opinion is a bag of shite. Lurkers will gain something from both of our points of view anyway.

I feel it is important for ordinary women to speak their minds, many and varied as they are. So what if other women disagree or find me/you/us objectionable. Let's not be an echo chamber or aspire to be a hive mind. Speak up, be heard.

I struggle with this too, OP. I keep reading posts on here, and hearing people in RL, and thinking, 'that's exactly what I thought, why couldn't I have put it into words?".

Avoid apologising for having an opinion, especially a potentially unpopular opinion, especially before you've even stated the opinion. Similarly avoid front loading with caveats. Avoid aiming for everyone to agree with you.

This is such good advice. I'm very conflict-averse and it takes me ages to get to the point because I'm worried about provoking an argument, or being misunderstood. I'm trying my best to avoid the front-loading with caveats but decads of being socialised to be 'nice' die hard!

I keep in mind that my primary concerns are for safeguarding, women's rights and fair process.
I don't have children but I have neices, god daughters and have worked with vulnerable children and adults (both sexes).
Its a useful anchor!

I can veer from (fondly imagined) eloquence to waffle within the same sentence because it gets away from me, runs off at several different tangents and eventually wanders back 30 lines later having lost the entire point I was originally trying to make along with everyone, who lost the will to live, while trying to read it.

GRRM has nothing on me for waffle, ahem evidently, so I’m no model but I’d just say go for it, OP. You’ll find the more you post the more you’ll mirror similar kinds of turns of phrase, vocabulary and sentence constructions to those others in the community use.

In the meantime, simple is good! Don’t be me. Keep it simple and succinct when making a point and you can’t go far wrong.