Sky News just featured story appearing in tomorrow's Sunday Mail

[TheCatsServant]

Apparently a woman spent 8 hours in a cell/being interviewed by the police for a "transphobic" Tweet along the lines of TWAW. Can't bring myself to buy the Mail tomorrow to check the details, but it may be taken up by other papers.

[DisrespectfulAdultFemale]

And I'm not sure I blame HQ.

I disagree. If HQ aren't actively complicit, they often do a poor job at being unbiased.

[Datun]

I waver DisrespectfulAdultFemale. But unless I know what they have been advised by their lawyers, and why, I don't feel able to criticise too harshly.

The Bergdorf video was interesting. They had obviously been alerted to what would be considered transphobic comments under the video. But were completely happy to allow the video itself, without those.

I do know that the pressure transactivists bring is immense. And this is virtually the sole platform remaining where we can talk, even as we do.

[terfsandwich]

Yes Datun I wouldn't have bothered looking at that video either. I have no interest, or rather the opposite, in seeing our Dear Vexator in action. But when it was clear by the deletions that the Vexator wanted to suppress it, I hotfooted off to Kiwifarms.

[Datun]

In case people think the video has been deleted, it hasn't. It can't be, because it's in the public domain.

Here it is

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nwuiXa48J4g&feature=youtu.be

[R0wantrees]

In case people think the video has been deleted, it hasn't. It can't be, because it's in the public domain.
Here it is

Datun Thanks, I hadn't seen that.
Aside from whatever concerns Hayden may personally have, there are significant additional issues raised.

January 4th 2018
'Police 'routinely ignoring' needs of female detainees on periods, warns watchdog
Female suspects have sometimes been left to bleed in their cells or been unable to wash their hands for days at a time'
(extract)
Police officers are “routinely ignoring” the needs of female suspects on periods, a watchdog has warned.

The Independent Custody Visiting Association (ICVA) has written to the Home Office to express its concern about the conditions women under arrest face when menstruating, saying they are a potential breach of human rights and equality law.

They warn some female suspects have been left to bleed or forced to change tampons and sanitary towels while being recorded on CCTV. Others have been unable to speak to a female police officer to ask for help or have been unable to wash their hands or shower after changing tampons.

They have called for Home Secretary Amber Rudd to introduce new guidelines for the police, which would include asking female detainees about their needs, in private, when they are booked in, as well as a hygiene pack and washing facilities being made available to all women." (continues)

concludes:
“Although there have only been a very small number of detainees affected by inadequate sanitary protection, we are committed to achieving greater consistency across the country so that women in custody are always treated with dignity and respect.

“In consultation with women’s groups and other organisations, we are in the process of developing comprehensive guidance for officers on how to deal with these sensitive and often complex cases”.

A Home Office spokeswoman told The Independent: ”Everyone who is held in custody should be treated with dignity and have their needs respected. That is why we are working closely with the Independent Custody Visiting Association and the National Police Chiefs’ Council to understand where improvements can be made on this issue.”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-women-periods-ignore-needs-female-detainees-cctv-suspects-cells-arrest-tampons-sanitary-a8141101.html

August 21st 2018 BBC report:
(extract)
"New guidelines for how police treat female detainees with their periods have been proposed by the Home Office.

Ministers are consulting on plans to change codes of practice in England and Wales to ensure women in custody are treated with dignity.

The review comes after a watchdog suggested earlier this year that police were "routinely ignoring" the needs of women on their periods.

The government said everyone in custody should have "their needs respected". (continues)
www.bbc.com/news/uk-45266121

[EweSurname]

It's not that video that's being deleted off these threads (it's still up from when it was posted on Friday at 20.44), it's the video of Stephanie Hayden from a few years ago.

[R0wantrees]

It's not that video that's being deleted off these threads (it's still up from when it was posted on Friday at 20.44), it's the video of Stephanie Hayden from a few years ago.

Concerning issues at Birkbeck NUS?

From TheBewilderness rules of misogyny:

'10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.'

www.reddit.com/r/Gender_Critical/comments/6kkeni/the_rules_of_misogyny/

[Datun]

Oh EweSurname. Sorry, I wasn't up to speed on the fact there was more than one.

And yes, I've seen the one from a few years ago and it's very illuminating.

People are socially conditioned to view men and women differently, based on what they look like.

So when a man looks like a woman, they tend to think they are less of a problem than someone who looks like a man.

Obviously it actually makes zero difference. Because it's entirely cosmetic.

But look at the reaction to Karen White.

You have to dismantle people's conditioning. You can do it very quickly with Karen White.

But it's not right that people are being prevented from doing so. Using privacy as a reason is, in my opinion, disingenuous at best, and a manipulative lie at worst.

Gender critical feminists aren't interested in hurting people's feelings. They are interested in removing layers of duplicity in order to protect their rights.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

The censorship is being identified everywhere. And I'm not sure I blame HQ. People like Hayden make no secret of their relentless determination to control the narrative. And it must be massively time-consuming, and tricky, to keep moderating due to the persistent reporting.

I would be unsurprised if Mumsnet is not also the target of litigation - pretty sure I saw some gleeful twatterings to that effect. I wouldn't expect MNHQ to confirm this, of course, but suspect it is ongoing.

We know that any reference to previous names/history brings down the Wrath of Steph wherever it occurs, so I'm not surprised links are being deleted. I'd also not be surprised if names of individual posters were being demanded from MNHQ. We've seen this pattern before from others.

The wheels are falling off the bus now though. Let it play out. In the meantime, a google search for kiwifarms plus the relevant surname provides much interesting and entertaining information.

[terryleather]

As an aside, Kiwifarms appear to have been brought down by FSB, Mossad and Hertfordshire Constabulary?! amongst others...not sure what's been going on...

[R0wantrees]

But it's not right that people are being prevented from doing so. Using privacy as a reason is, in my opinion, disingenuous at best, and a manipulative lie at worst.

It has massive Safeguarding implications and will be exploited.

Establishing privacy precedents will be used by male convicted sex offenders and then identify as trans women. The potential dangers that this presents to vulnerable female prisoners was demonstrated by Karen White's assaults.
Prioritising the 'privacy' of some males also creates substantial risks to both children and women as it impacts effective criminal justice management, policing and safeguarding measures within the community.

Francis Crook executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform "said that she was worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.

‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration."

source:
//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

Claude Knights (safeguarding expert recently retired after 15 years as head of Kidscape)
on sex offenders who transition and are afforded the opportunity to change their name and hide their history as a consequence & recent case of "Christopher Noble, 32, transitioned to Christyl Knight while behind bars for keeping a stash of over 4,000 vile pictures and videos of kids as young as six months old"

“Allowing these individuals to hide a secret past is a dangerous practice.”
“Anyone who’s fuelled the vile trade in indecent images of children and therefore contributed to their sexual abuse should not be allowed to change their name.”

source:
//www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile/

[Datun]

terryleather

Kiwi farms have had a pinned notice for a few days that they are upgrading the system today and the site will be off-line. So I suspect that's a joke.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

That's interesting terryleather - kiwifarms + name google searches bring up 'file not found' too!

[EweSurname]

No worries Datun, just wanted to help clarify what's allowed and what's not as I keep getting deleted over it without understanding why!

I think Kiwifarms was scheduled maintainence work for today terryleather so the notice is probably just a joke.

[Datun]

We know that any reference to previous names/history brings down the Wrath of Steph wherever it occurs, so I'm not surprised links are being deleted. I'd also not be surprised if names of individual posters were being demanded from MNHQ. We've seen this pattern before from others.

Absolutely. And I'm more than happy to work within guidelines if, as Justine Roberts said, it keeps the conversation flowing.

I suspect there are far more people interested in free speech, than there are in women's rights.

They should never have gone with the #nodebate.

All it did is recruit people to the cause.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Ah! Thanks Ewe.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Absolutely. And I'm more than happy to work within guidelines if, as Justine Roberts said, it keeps the conversation flowing.

YY Datun

[EweSurname]

Yes me too! Which is why I'd really like clarification as I've been deleted several times on this thread and don't know why, and would prefer to understand so I can avoid transgressing in the future!

[terryleather]

Ah that makes much more sense, thanks Datun.

I was wondering what was going on and wasn't sure if it was legit..tried a Twitter search but that didn't shed any light either!

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Maybe report your post Ewe and ask for clarification?

Not sure what was in your deleted posts, but I suspect anything directly linking to any previous identity or any suggestion of misgendering will be enthusiastically seized upon.

[EweSurname]

Ah, I'd forgotten that you could report your own posts in that way. Thanks bore I'll do that.

It was a video of Stephanie Hayden from a few years ago, pre transition (I think, although I don't actually know their transition timelines) but there was no misgendering and I don't understand how linking to a previous identity when someone is already so publically open about being trans can be an issue. It's not outing in any way and they've already made it clear that they had a "previous" identity.

[Iused2BanOptimist]

I would be unsurprised if Mumsnet is not also the target of litigation - pretty sure I saw some gleeful twatterings to that effect. I wouldn't expect MNHQ to confirm this, of course, but suspect it is ongoing.

This has been mentioned on another site. I assume the person who mentioned it is in the know.

[R0wantrees]

The extent of pressure exerted by some TRAs is highlighted by clinicians who have whistleblown concerns about Tavistock GIDS:

Observer, 'Governor of Tavistock Foundation quits over damning report into gender identity clinic
Decision expected to intensify scrutiny of service accused of ‘fast-tracking’ young people'
(extract)
"Marcus Evans, one of the governors of The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust has resigned, after accusing its management of having an “overvalued belief in” the expertise of its Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) “which is used to dismiss challenge and examination”.

"Dr David Bell, written in his capacity as then staff governor, which warned that “the GIDS service as it now functions [is] not fit for purpose and children’s ends are being met in a woeful, inadequate manner and some will live on with the damaging consequences”.

In his report, which was submitted to the trust’s board earlier this month and whose findings were first reported in the Observer last year, Bell expressed concern that the service was failing to fully consider psychological and social factors in a young person’s background – such as whether they had been abused, suffered a bereavement or had autism – which might influence their decision to transition. Such views are dismissed by many transgender rights activists who believe they play little, if any, part in a person’s desire to transition.

Evans, a psychoanalyst, subsequently resigned.
“In my 40 years of experience in psychiatry, I have learned that dismissing serious concerns about a service or approach is often driven by a defensive wish to prevent painful examination of an ‘overvalued system’,” he complained in his resignation email.

He added: “I do not believe we understand what is going on in this complex area and the need to adopt an attitude which examines things from different points of view is essential. This is difficult in the current environment as the debate and discussion required is continually being closed down or effectively described as ‘transphobic’ or in some way prejudicial.” (continues)

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos

cf Jonny Best's article, 'What’s gone wrong with Stonewall?'
(extract)

"The root of Stonewall’s failure over the last five years is its endorsement of gender identity and its attempt to coerce society into accepting it. In order to see clearly the line that Stonewall has crossed, compare its definitions of homophobia and transphobia:

Homophobia is:
The fear or dislike of someone, based on prejudice or negative attitudes, beliefs or views about lesbian, gay or bi people.

Transphobia is:
The fear or dislike of someone based on the fact they are trans, including the denial/refusal to accept their gender identity.

Stonewall has written and promoted a definition of ‘transphobia’ which categorises anybody who resists belief in an idea as transphobic. Feminists who wish to uphold their understanding of gender as an oppressive, hierarchical system of sex stereotyping are labelled transphobic. At a stroke, every second wave feminist is a bigot — as Germaine Greer and Jenni Murray have both discovered.

This is not a progressive or even a constructive politics." (continues)
medium.com/@JonnnyBest/whats-gone-wrong-with-stonewall-1be30cffba9f

[SophieLMumsnet]

Hi all,

This thread needs to be discussed in the office - so we're going to temporarily take it down while we have these discussions. Once we have more information, we will update you - so please do bear with us on this.

Thank you

[HebeMumsnet]

Afternoon, everyone. We've had a good look through the thread this morning and have decided to reinstate it. There are obviously a lot of deletions but it would be a shame for the entire thread to be lost as a result.

Just to clarify, as there was some confusion about why we had deleted a video upthread, the video didn't seem to have been taken with the subject's consent and, as far as we are aware, wasn't uploaded anywhere with that person's consent either. We felt that the video wasn't really going to form part of a civil debate and it felt a bit like a personal attack. All in all, we decided it was best deleted.

Hopefully we can get the thread back on track now, anyway.