Jeremy Vine talking to transwoman

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

He said "No, I was born a girl"

That has started me thinking. Don't want to give the kneejerk reaction, so I am listening. I know males are male and females are female, but that doesn't preclude me for being accepting of each trans individual and their issues and problems.

He is of an age where he would have been locked up (presumably 'for his own good') had he come out, back in his youth (1980s). So, like many gay men did, he got married, played the normal game.

Not sure he is being anything other than a bit self centred so far - which you would be if you had suppressed any part of your personality for that long...

But they weren't! Marilyn, Boy George and any number of ordinary people who cross dressed just did so! It was probably the most openly gender bending times of the modern era, for men. To try to re-write that is quite a lie.

I was a teen then, all sorts of straight, gay and just curious men cross dressed. One friend from then still does (self proclaimed tranny). None of them were arrested for beng in drag! They barely got a second look from bar staff and 'proper adults' - just one raised eyebrow and on you go!

We have gone bakcwards since then. But that, I suppose, is a GC attitude. TRAs would probably see that lack of concern as some kind of denial, obliteration...

Well, quite.

As a porkie, it's right up there with "If Stephen Hawking was British he'd never have lived..."

I was going to say about the makeup, long hair, gender-bender, androgynous look was all over the 80s and nobody was locked up. I was being a man then what with being in the Army and riding a motorbike, drinking pints of real ale and playing bass guitar. Talk about gender non conforming! Nobody ever thought of me as anything other than a woman though... funny that

lassupthebrew you'd be called a transphobe for your opinions nowadays

If Stephen Hawking was British he'd never have lived..." I'd forgotten about that one!

One of Jeremy's producers tweeted about six months ago, slating GC women and praising TW, so there was already bias.

There was also a very famous model who was trans, back in the 70s I think she advertised vodka...Caroline Coffey?

Caroline Cossey (aka 'Tula'). Wiki (may not be reliable) says: "Cossey was born in Brooke, Norfolk. Through puberty, Cossey was distinctly feminine in appearance due to a variant of Klinefelter's syndrome, where, instead of having the XX female chromosome pattern, she possesses the genotype XXXY[1][3] (people with Klinefelter's syndrome usually have XXY)."

I didn't hear it but re PP

"I think Ann might have meant that in the 80s the police were locking up transvestites for offences against public decency"

The 80s did have an aggressive police policy of entrapment & gay men.

If this person was referring to that it's just more co-opting. This person was married to a woman? The actions by the police around "cottaging" are entirely unrelated and it's just more co-opting.

The idea that men in the 80s would have been sectioned for presenting as women is bonkers given the fashion was for men to wear loads of makeup and look as pretty as possible.

All this being 'born a girl' business seems to involve a penchant for liking "girls' clothes" and "girls' toys"

So what does that say about girls like me who screamed when my mother tried to make me wear dresses; who took the head off my Tiny Tears doll to see how it cried rather than playing 'mummies' with it?

Was I not 'born a girl'?

How anyone can not see that this is about prescriptive and restrictive gender stereotyping is beyond me. If a boy wants to grow his hair and paint his nails (like my own son did) then fucking let him! But it doesn't make him a girl!

I've just had a listen.

TBH, it was lunchtime on Radio 2; I'm not sure it would have been appropriate for Jeremy to have been more challenging with his questioning.

I bet Ann's wife and daughter are spitting feathers if they listened to it though; why not get them on too, Jeremy, and let them tell their side of the story, instead of labelling them as unsupportive in their absence? It's the lack of balance in these discussions that is so frustrating. Yes, the Anns of the world can live how they want - as long as they keep the hell out of female-only spaces.

Flying oink I am called worse than that and blocked by most trans people on their lists. Many transsexuals who post openly are.

Says a lot about whether they seek dialogue or unquestioning acceptance of what they think if they prefer to stick fingers in their ears and go 'la la la' rather than have a conversation that conceivably might disagree with nonsense phrases like 'transwomen are women' .

The AGP bit Datun, where 'Nikki' said, "...everyone tells me I look better as a woman".

Ah ok, thanks.