How British feminism became anti-trans - according to the New York Times

[NotTerfNorCis]

www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/terf-trans-women-britain.html

A surprisingly mainstream movement of feminists known as TERFs oppose transgender rights as a symptom of “female erasure.”

Beginning to suspect the writer has a bias...

There, the most vocal trans-exclusionary voices are, ostensibly, “feminist” ones, and anti-trans lobbying is a mainstream activity. Case in point: Ms. Parker told the podcast “Feminist Current” that she’d changed her thinking on trans women after spending time on Mumsnet, a site where parents exchange tips on toilet training and how to get their children to eat vegetables. If such a place sounds benign, consider the words of British writer Edie Miller: “Mumsnet is to British transphobia,” she wrote “what 4Chan is to American fascism.”

The term coined to identify women like Ms. Parker and Ms. Long is TERF, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In Britain, TERFs are a powerful force. If, in the United States, the mainstream media has been alarmingly ready to hear “both sides” on the question of trans people’s right to exist, in Britain, TERFs have effectively succeeded in framing the question of trans rights entirely around their own concerns: that is, how these rights for others could contribute to “female erasure.”

God, I could hardly get through a paragraph of that Lewis woman's nonsense. It reminded me painfully of why I decided not to do a PhD as my literature professors suggested because even at 22 years old I hd had enough of that head-up-your-arse way of writing. It's painful to read and even more painful to write. Also, the more obscure your writing is, the more likely it is that you are talking absolute bollocks. Good writing is about clear communication, not obfuscation.

And this, from the Fortune article linked to above:

"In eliminating the specificity of the female body, Lewis attempts to stitch together a utopian future where “genders” are having children, even though the reality of reproduction across the Mammalia class demonstrates that sex, not gender, determines where life is gestated and birthed. What Lewis attempts in fictionalizing a world of dreamy hopefulness actually resembles more an episode of The Handmaid’s Tale where this writer has lost sense of any irony. Of course pregnancy is not about gender. It is uniquely about sex and the class of “gestators” are females under erasure by this dystopian movement anxious to pursue a vision of a world without women."

The vision of a world without women... that sums it up for me. The reason 'Mumsnet' and 'TERFs' are so threatening to the TRAs is because they know that reproduction is still essentially reliant upon women, biologically born, uterus-having, ovulating women. It's only by erasing the need for a uterus to continue the human race that they can achieve their utopia where sex and gender don't matter.

Unfortunately for those of us who are mothers, there is no escape from biology. We know that and we live in that reality every day and that intensely enrages TRAs who want to deny that reality and erase it.

Well, well, contrary to my expectations I'm beginning to wonder whether Jolyon Maugham might actually get there.

of course she's got a patreon account which she pushes in her tweets

Judgey pants firmly hoiked, but it’s the woke equivalent of those ‘mumma to Tiffany-rose (5) blessed wife of Dwayne’ tickets isn’t it? You see ‘she/her’ and a ‘buy me a coffee! [email protected]’ and you know what you’re in for

And zero sense of humour, the mark of fundamentalists everywhere

nauticant that thread!! Always, always some fucking idiot who's never read de Beauvoir misinterpreting that line.

I wonder if Jolyon will get piled on now.

Of course he will. He`s made a very mild comment about wanting a calm discussion and obliquely conceded that women do have the right to be heard.

That is all it takes for Donald Sutherland and all the other pod people to turn, point, and start screaming at you.

The cult operation I mentioned earlier if you so much as breath the mildest of queries about the religion. They`ll be after him now. The only question is will he fold again or not.

Unfortunately for those of us who are mothers, there is no escape from biology
And, indeed, for those women that aren't.

The thing is, when you do that to someone they may fold publically, but their mind will be changed irrevocably - and not in the direction you intended.

Every single recipient of a similar pile on will be saying one thing in public while in private the cogs begin to turn that actually...

He looked at an article and was shocked because it was:
written by someone with extreme views;
a hatchet job against people he knows are not servants of evil;
filled with lies or, at best, statements calculated to deceive;
filled with stuff that viewed from a particular angle looks sort of like dog-whistle racism; and
published in one of the world's foremost broadsheets to give it a stamp of progressive approval.

So, being someone who thinks of himself as a decent chap he decided to tell people that that sort of thing wasn't on. And is now getting a kicking on twitter for being a "bigot".

There'll come a point when Jolyon Maugham will decide it's wrong to recant. This might be it.

Curious, lots of people saying what a wonderful article.

I could not understand it at all. It appears there is no debate because people inhabit parallel universes.

Oh, and by the way, check out his twitter banner:

pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/406842374/1450164580/1500x500

He might have decided us living in the world of Sophie Lewis might not be the best outcome.

Nauticant

The reason 'Mumsnet' and 'TERFs' are so threatening to the TRAs....

I see that narcistic inner woman is being hurt by the very existence of a site, mumsnet. Just its existence is enough. That is why Kiwi farms is ok.

I was reading the JM thread earlier and I was also curious about the people saying it was a good article - had they read it at all . Definitely a parallel world.

lol... I've not logged into Mumsnet since my daughter turned 5. But after reading this article, I logged back in to see if there was any truth. Sorry, but I think they've got a pretty good point. One of the first articles I noticed contained transphobic comments. This very thread contains transphobic vibes.

Are you trying to tell me that you are not transphobic?

I look around and what I see is vulnerable people being bullied by people who themselves have been bullied by men.

You call yourselves 'radical feminists' but you are being reactionary and instead of fighting for a gender free world where people are people and everybody is equal regardless of sex, gender, race etc. You are actually contributing to the male narrative by re-enforcing the gender binary and stereotypes.

I don't think you even realise that you are helping maintain the patriarchy.

99.9% of transwomen are no threat to women. They're no threat to anyone. If anything, they're probably in a good position to help bring down the patriarchy and build a more equal society. So why bully them? Surely they're not worth the effort and are merely a distraction from the real problem which are chauvinistic men who think women should be seen and not heard. Why go for easy targets that achieve no goals? No point. All you are doing is playing into the hands of the alt-right who would be quite happy seeing women's rights stripped.

You think that when Trump and co. succeed in stripping humanrights from trans people at the UN, they're going to be content at stopping there? Start with the most vulnerable group and once they're removed, start on the next and the next, and the next. Until women know their place once more and white chauvinistic men are ruling the world again.

So are you going to hang around here bullying transwomen because it makes you feel good... or are you going to knuckle down and join the real fight against 'real' men. Not the type who want to cut their bits off, but the ones who think it is their right to touch women's bits and boast about their bits being capable of raping girls. That's where the real fight is to be had... not bullying a bunch of vulnerable people.

meh, I doubt I will get much positivity from here but think about it... think about who the real enemy is here.

You are actually contributing to the male narrative by re-enforcing the gender binary and stereotypes.

Projection much?

It's your side that blather on about Barbie and GI Joe being the ultimate woman/man.

The whole point of gender critical is that people can present how ever they wish without denying reality.

You are actually contributing to the male narrative by re-enforcing the gender binary and stereotypes.

How can people even be this illogical?

If a man says he's a woman, what is he basing it on if not stereotypes, for goodness sake?

There'll come a point when Jolyon Maugham will decide it's wrong to recant.

He won't recant feeling entitled to decide what's best for women though from his lofty perch, though. It will never occur to him that it is up to men like him to budge up and accommodate their non-conforming brethren. I find him as annoying as any woke bro. He can fuck off.

As always thanks Datun and Lang

You are actually contributing to the male narrative by re-enforcing the gender binary and stereotypes.

Dear goddess. Genderism is the patriarchy, you numpty.

"chauvinistic men who think women should be seen and not heard"

What, you mean like trans rights activists like Dr Adrian Harrop who think that 'TERFs' should be shut up with a punch in the face? Those kinds of men? Or do you think that chauvinism is the exclusive preserve of the right? Because from what I've seen in the TERF / TRA wars, there is a lot of hatred of women coming from the left these days too.

So are you going to hang around here bullying transwomen because it makes you feel good... or are you going to knuckle down and join the real fight against 'real' men. Not the type who want to cut their bits off,

And just in case you're still reading. 90% of them don't touch their bits. They very much enjoy them.

And if the GRA is amended to include self identification, we're not even talking about transwomen. We talking about every predator in the country.

And finally, no one is bullying transwomen. It's absurd that anyone thinks women have the power to bully great swathes of men.

Tell the incarcerated women who couldn't escape, that it is they who are doing the bullying when Karen White, convicted rapist, assaulted them.

And as if by magic you both appear

"lol... I've not logged into Mumsnet since my daughter turned 5. "

Cool story bro. What was your username before she was 5?

Odin the Wolf also asks if Sophie wants some cheese to go with her "I cant handle the truth" whine.

There are some cracking posts on this thread. This one made me laugh and I’m mentally filing it away for when my kids resort to teen awfulness.

contributing to the male narrative by re-enforcing the gender binary and stereotypes.

What does this meeeaan? What do you think the critical´ in <span class="italic">gender critical</span> means? We dont enforce a gender binary, we reject the constrictions of gender entirely.

Your woman here in this article has obviously realised that the women speaking out about this in the UK can't be tarred with the 'trump-toting bible-swinging redneck' brush and so is desperately flinging around terms related to anything, anything at all, that she identifies as reactionary and therefore doubleplusungood in the hope that some of it sticks, regardless of the fact that a lot of these - indigenous peoples of Britain, anyone? - are irrelevant to us and that the rest have to be sollipsistically shoe horned in just to make an appearance at all.

Basically, we don't fit her narrative. She's doing her damnedest to make it so, but we don't. And that both riles and perplexes her. Probably will continue to do so forever, if the already numerous rewrites of this article are anything to go by - she's just going to keep at it.