So I went to see Sandi Toksvig tonight

[HavelockVetinari]

There was a Q&A session, and much to my horror surprise I was picked to ask a question. I asked her whether she felt it was important to make the distinction between biological sex and gender identity when discussing women's rights (she's co-founder of the Women's Equality Party, who have previously said TWAW).

She said it was an important issue to discuss (rather than #NoDebate) and the way rights intersect and overlap is something that needs discussion.

Ok, it's not a ringing endorsement of the GC position, but it at least indicates a willingness to discuss the issue, and acknowledges that there IS and issue, which I think is progress.

I'm planning to write to her to ask for a meeting to discuss this - watch this space.

Good for you, that took courage.

Excellent question - well done. Keep us posted.

Well done.

That sounds promising, what sort of event was it?

Good question, and fair enough response. Acknowledging that the rights of natal women and trans women will sometimes conflict is the key to unlocking this, given we are so often faced with “not a zero sum game” “their struggles are our struggles” and other probably false suggestions that certain trans rights don’t reduce women’s rights.

I've often wondered what her views were, well done for asking the question!

*provably false not probably!

She's right, and if we'd been able to discuss and both sides put their views that would have been best for everyone.
Instead we've reached a point where the police are contacting women who defend biological sex. That level of crazy.

Great question, rubbish answer.

That's not a great answer that's evasive and hiding from the issue

She evaded the question. It’s a simple enough question to answer and the only logical answer is yes.

Yes, it is evasive.

But better than the 'indefinable femaleness that unites us' tosh that they were peddling this time last year.

Didn't Heather Brunskell-Evans get sacked from WEP last year for saying effectively what Sandi has just stated?

I think it’s progress. I would have been surprised if she’d come out as openly GC given the vitriol she would receive for it. Hopefully this indicates a willingness to discuss and from there a more concrete opinion on this. Sandi is a satirist and a lesbian. I find it hard to believe she really thinks TWAW or is unaware of the abuse lesbians are getting at the minute.

But here we are in 2019 and the Women's Equality Party are thinking of having a discussion about this.

Sophie Walker was on Mumsnet in 2016, stating that the WEP were thinking of having a discussion about this.

There are huge numbers of women who currently are or will be affected by this, so what is stopping the Women's Equality Party from actually having the discussion?

If it is threats and intimidation, downright cowardice or just ineffective dithering then just bloody say so.

It really doesn't give you great faith that they can actually tackle anything as a party if they can't tackle the fundamental question of who exactly they are fighting for.

I feel like the rest of the planet is about 10 years behind Mumsnet on this.

Agree Popchyk.

On a recent QI she made it very clear that lesbians don't do penis. (disclaimer - it may be an old series - I watch it infrequently and in no particular order).

So it's an important issue to discuss, but she didn't discuss it.

WEP )inc Sandi) didn't cover themselves in glory when they first come onto Mumsnet, and not just on this issue, but on the whole taking-us-for-granted thing. I think any advance is good, and I want people to be able to change their minds on this.

Having said that - Sandi, come out a bit further. You would be far from the first, and the path has already been cleared for you. Being gender-crit isn't a lonely thing any more, and while yes, you will get shit for it, it won't matter so much as it once did.

'Intersect and overlap' is mealy mouthed. That's not what is happening to women's rights.

"So it's an important issue to discuss, but she didn't discuss it."

Exactly, a classic case of firmly sitting on the fence.

It's important to keep putting fence-sitting WEP leaders and figureheads on the spot. Well done to the OP.

The WEP Conference debate on the Woman Question was fudged and fixed so that members were prevented from voting. Here's one transwoman's blog about the machinations behind the scene and a call to more transwomen to join up and fight their corner: "Trans Rights at the WEP Conference", 10th September 2018

www.cheryl-morgan.com/?p=25702