Fingernails / hands

[Njordsgrrrl]

Just had a chat about DP and I having to live in the car (could happen) and the jobs available to us.

Clean, filed, preferably polished nails would probably be a requirement for me. Him not so much as he works outdoors anyway so rough hands = good.

I bit mine for most of my childhood and remember having awful-tasting chemicals painted on them to stop it while I was years from puberty.

It's another thing isn't it? I think the gender pay gap studies should take into account the gender expenditure gap. Tights, makeup, Botox, nails, hair, waxing etc

I do expect people in non-manual jobs to have clean, neat fingernails, though. Not so much my farmer father, jobs like that.

DP gets his hair cut waaaay more often than I do. Tampax & bras are my only things off the list of alleged 'female requirements'. Plus if sleeping in my car I'd be more focussed on getting a shower and my clothes washed than shiny nails and a waxed vag.

I read this as Njordsgrrrl listing things that women felt constrained to buy - not her own list. Clearly it depends on the person. Am very sloppy about nails but like nice moisturiser. Who was it jokingly said they were standing to be an MP of a manifesto of Clinique on the NHS.

This topic is what got Jenni Murray into trouble with India W. India said not shaving or waxing was ‘dirty’ and it was OK for the Dorchester to expect female staff to wear tights and nail polish. Jenni pointed out they did not earn much and that there had been debates for ages about whether it was feminist/not feminist to have hairy legs, no make up etc. India said Jenni M was very hostile.

I'm totally genderfluid, and I veer between high maintenance full face make up and vintage clothes and hairdos one day, and shirts and ties from the men's section another day.

What I don't do, though, is paint my nails or do anything to them except clip them if they get ragged or more than a few millimetres long. Apart from anything else, my workplace doesn't allow painted nails.

Tights, makeup, Botox, nails, hair, waxing

My personal spend on those things is shampoo (which I share the bottle with DH). And I did "no shampoo" for several months last year, so it was £0 for a while.

This is starting to sound like those threads about feeding a family of five for a week on a chicken.

Love your style Flora

DH and I both have professional jobs. Both need clean, tidy nails and clean tidy nails.

I can wear a frock for £50 and a smart cardigan, shoes I spend about £65. DH has to have a good suit and smart, traditional shirt and tie. His shirts are at least £50. Smart traditional Loakes/Church shoes £200 plus now £45 for heels and soles.

Can't agree with you op. It works both ways.

Yes it's not my own list. I can't go back to teaching (no nails though clean, some makeup, usually trousers) because I'd have no space to keep books or papers. So I'm looking at shop or catering as it's a small remote tourist place. There's always work at sea but I'm disadvantaged by the fact I'm not strong enough and female so can hardly piss out of an open boat like the men.

I didn't want a hit and run or a fight. To be honest I was thinking of the company who tried to force employees to wear heels. Cabin crew. The commuters I saw every day for years dressed in business suits. Men warm in winter, women not so much. If you've ever seen "Suits" it's a good example. Female characters in dresses and the men in shirt, waistcoat, jacket, overcoats twice as clothed in the office and out in the N.Y winter.

Stockings were a real problem during WWII when it was frowned on to wear trousers. Things have got better I agree.

Style and Beauty is where I read about pressure to look younger and use Botox and fillers for work. Depends on the culture. I agree it is societal so gender not sex based.

Just musing but thank you for the replies and the concern. DP did live in his car for a few months up in the hills with a stream and the dog for warmth. At the most basic level I guess the biggest problem I'd have is clean dry clothes. He can wear any old shite at sea and nobody notices if he wears the same all week. One guy is wearing motorcycle leathers every day instead of oilskins 😁

Btw the place I'm living in now has no hot water or heating. It is really difficult to keep a log burner going and shovelling coal without getting covered in ash and coal out from under the nails. Nail brush is useless so it takes ages with a cocktail stick. I wash my hair in baby shampoo under an icy cold shower head and wash with a kettle of water. So I'm not suggesting anyone needs the things I listed or is wrong for choosing them.

Btw. Primark velvet leggings are awesome and cheap but I had to make a four hour round trip to buy four pairs, they're that good.

And before anyone starts about my former profession and typing / formatting / coherent posts, I have been out of the workplace twenty years caring for children with life-threatening medical conditions and autism. I've since developed a disability myself which means my thinking and writing isn't as good as it was.

I'm all for criticism of feminine beauty rituals, but this surely must be the easiest one to eschew. Who's looking at your fingernails?

I just clip mine very short as I can't bear to have them long enough that stuff can get under them. Never paint them.

Mine are a couple of mm long but thumbs are bitten down to the quick. Still grimy but may be a lack of hot water / coal issue. Maybe it's just me but if I was handing over food or money to people with them I'd think they were judging or I'd get a disciplinary.

Another historic one from the seventies / eighties: M&S used to have an on-site hairdresser for female staff. No idea if they paid for this but my mother's friend would get in earlier for her shift because of this.

As stated. I've been out so long I'm probably over-anxious.

I think I see what you mean, OP. The standards for what counts as looking 'professional' are very different for men and women, because of this perception that women need to be decorative. One thing that I often notice is how much skin women are expected to show compared to men - look at formalwear, for instance. No, it isn't compulsory, but all the images in the media put forward the idea that this is how women are meant to look.

I ignore it. I wear a little bit of makeup but don't spend more than £20 a year on it (cheap brands, don't wear it every day). Nails just get clipped when they're too long, nothing else. Regular shampoo and conditioner for hair, and a friend trims it for me every few months. No waxing or tights and definitely no Botox.

From what you've said, OP, the only thing that I can see as a genuine problem would be if your nails looked grimy and you had a job handling food.

Good luck njordsgrrrl with finding job and better accommodation. Would wearing rubber gloves help when clearing out the fire? I have a disposable pair for the rare times I get out the shoe polish. Without them I would look like Just William and not in a good gender fluid glam way like floralbunting.

WWll trousers became very popular for women and stayed mainstream afterwards. Also women took on factory work and farming jobs (all whist wearing trousers). The war pushed forwards female emancipation massively. Botox is a pretty new concept and I don't believe anyone feels they have to have it. In the case of a uniform then you either wear it or opt to not work at the company. Fashion concepts don't have to be followed and women can choose to wear whatever they want. In the case of men there's generally the office constraints too; suits, smart shoes, tie. It's frowned upon to turn up in shorts and flip flops and could led to a discipline. I don't see the difference really.

 @Njordsgrrrl I hope things don't come to that.

Regarding Botox; I can't believe how common it is among some women, and men.

My first job after uni women weren't allowed to wear trousers and were expected to wear heels (I'll concede that was a while ago) even in roles where they were a hazard. However the expectation that women are groomed and wear heels is still very much the case in many professional roles although trousers are the norm. Ironically I now rarely wear trousers for work preferring a dress so I don't have to think about what separates go together. Heels are more of a problem as heels and the start of arthritis are not a good combination

Njordsgrrrl my sympathies on your possible homelessness. Most people notice homeless on the streets, however sleeping in cars, vans and tents is a largely hidden albeit greater problem. What ever you do prioritise security and insulation

Thank you again for your good wishes 🌹
And to the poster who suggested disposable gloves. Coal wouldn't be a problem in the hills (where the stream is) but mud / deer droppings will so they'll help there too 🙂

Njordsgrrrl
Apologies, I didn't think you were a genuine poster and I was wrong. Best of luck.

I've had jobs where they told you when in the year you were allowed bare legs and when you should be wearing tights!

I just came back from an industry conference, and whilst booth girls were still a thing (although one, gamely had women and men in b
Bavarian dress - so lederhosen for the men, which at least felt a little more equal), there were a lot more women than there were 10 years ago, and they covered the full gamut from execs to scruffy techs - just like the men, so things are changing I think.

I think that clothing-wise, DP and I would probably spend about the same when we're required to dress smartly - DP 2-3 suits, shirts, shoes. Me similar - but only because I am perfectly happy to buy myself a work 'uniform' and wear it on rotation, just like a man would. Other women seem to be much more likely to have a wider range of clothes they wear, and buy new items more frequently - rather than the 6 monthly shopping trips DP and I do.