The first official non binary person in USA detransitions

[Katvonfelttipeyebrows]

.........In 2016 Jamie Shrup became the first official non binary person in the USA.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/i-am-first-official-genderless-person-united-states

Jamie has taken the brave step of returning to his birth sex. He now believes gender ideology is harmful. He believes that autogynephilia was root cause of the way he felt.

jamieshupe.wordpress.com/2019/01/26/public-announcement-i-have-returned-to-my-male-birth-sex/

I hope he is okay. He's brave to be on Twitter. I hope he can move forward with his life.

Whilst Trump is mostly full of shit, I can't disagree with

I also support President Trump’s policy of recognizing and enforcing that there are only two biological sexes, male and female.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day after all!

I got about half way through the medium article on the way to work. All I can say so far is that THIS is brave and stunning, and I wholeheartedly support Jamie in standing up for women and children and against the tide of genderism.

There are only 2 sexes. The problem is with the idea that being a certain sex means you need to have a certain personality and set of interests.

Wow, brilliant essay. I was actually really moved to see a man who used to support this ideology speaking so clearly and forcefully against it.

Just the very basic respect he shows for women, recognising that we are not a feeling but a reality and that living in a female body comes with a very particular set of challenges. I've become so used to a certain set of men denying me this ounce of respect that it was like a breath of fresh air to see that from someone who was once tangled up in the cult.

And absolutely dead on about the horror show of medical transition. I think he's right, the tide will turn on this. And the judgment for the professionals who damaged and sterilised children will be harsh.

It’s possible to agree with a policy without calling it ‘Trump’s’ policy - that is a specific endorsement of Trump.

Trump does not care about policy and just supports which ever group suits his needs at the time.

He has not been able to coherently explain any of the policies he has endorsed.

He is a rubber stamp used by the rest of the Republican Party to push through their agenda on taxes and judges, and to a lesser extent conservative social policy.

Trump supports a transgender ban because he needs the endorsement of some very dodgy evangelical Christians. He couldn’t care less about the policy and in a different universe would be supporting TRAs.

He just needs to take one more baby step from "gender is fluid and some people are between male and female" to "gender is an oppressive system of bullshit".

That's nit picking though, since I think he is basically already there, just probably phrasing it in a way that reflects his history.

Trump does not care about policy and just supports which ever group suits his needs at the time. He has not been able to coherently explain any of the policies he has endorsed.

Well of course, he’s a fucking moron, but the nature of American politics is that a policy is that of the president and his administration rather than that of its underlings or lobbyists, in the same way the decision to interpret Title IX as applying to gender identity was an Obama policy.

This point cross references with the recent threads that it is possible for seemingly diametrically opposes people to agree on certain things.

"It’s possible to agree with a policy without calling it ‘Trump’s’ policy - that is a specific endorsement of Trump."

Trump did not write the policy. It was written by Jim Mattis.

It is not particularly helpful to divert this discussion to Trump.

Agree with MagicMix’s post at 10:47.

Anyone who reads the article and remains a believer in transgender ideology is beyond hope.

I keep wondering about his wife and child, and how this whole thing has been for them....

This passage leapt out at me:
Because even though I now wholly agreed that I wasn’t a female, I also still disagreed that I was just an unremarkable male.

An interesting read. There's much I agree with and some I don't. But like MagicMix wrote, I think he is basically already there, just probably phrasing it in a way that reflects his history.

The main thing that chimed with me is let's have non-binary identities where this means a person is not confined to the gender binary but having an understanding that they are still of the sex they were born as.

Non-binary looks generally fine when it's decoupled from sex and segregation by sex is still permitted (if reasonable).

Just with respect to the Trump thing, I referenced it as I was looking at his Twitter at the time in which he states:

The left has silenced me from speaking about the truths of gender identity and gender ideologies. While I do not embrace all of their views. I realize that I should work together with the right to defeat transgenderism. January 25th, I become a Republican.

mobile.twitter.com/NotableDesister/status/1092186609154437120

From the OP:

"I confess to having been motivated by autogynephilia".

That is quite the statement there.

The main thing that chimed with me is let's have non-binary identities where this means a person is not confined to the gender binary but having an understanding that they are still of the sex they were born as.

And then you just need to realise that everybody is non-binary, cancel that out of the equation and you've got it. Nobody really wants to think of themselves as a gender-conforming cardboard cutout stereotype of a man or a woman, even if they can see that they fit it in some ways, because it's insulting and we all know that we are individuals with more depth and character than that. Some people then get the idea that they are 'not like other men' or 'not like other women' instead of realising that the cardboard cutout is bullshit - this is clearly what led Shrup to go down the nonbinary route, cf. refusal to admit being an 'unremarkable male'. But it is extremely common (especially among girls and women because so many of the gender roles presented to us are so demeaning) and I know I had some thoughts along these lines myself when I was an adolescent. Doesn't everyone go through a 'not like the other girls/boys' phase?

Well he’s right about the left silencing. On the Guardian today (I know, it’s my own fault) there’s an article about Manchester Pride that has the “half of trans kids have attempted suicide” trope. A comment challenging this that had plenty of recommends has now vanished, not even a “this comment was removed” thing. Madness. So it’s brave that he’s managing to speak out and get his message out there, and I would be really interested to know if he approached the Guardian to offer this article as a countenance to his 2016 article, and if that’s what he alludes to in that tweet. It would make sense seeing as they were the media organisation that originally gave him his voice, although there are probably multiple possibilities of what “the left” means in the context of that tweet.

I've read about half of the article. It's fascinating and I agree with what he's saying. It's really brave of him to make such powerfully, damning statements but really it shouldn't be considered so, but he is asking for trouble and knows it. It shouldn't be this way but it is.

I'm tempted to get back on twitter to congratulate him and circulate the article.

I haven't read through the twitter thread but I'm betting now, before I look, that he will be told he 'wasn't proper trans'.

A truly brave man.

I hope more space is given to the voices of detransitioners. I think what Gill Smith has to say is really important too. She detransitioned from being a trans man.

If people want to medically transition, that's fine. But it's not going to be the solution to their problems. It's a treatment, not a changing of sex. So if you have such bad gender dysphoria that you find it intolerable to live in your body, you may (but not guaranteed) feel better if you have surgery or hormone treatment. However, it will not make you the opposite sex, and the problems you had before are likely to still be there. You will find it hard to fully pass for the opposite sex in most cases too, and there is a huge risk of side-effects from the treatment.

I think he is right that kids are being told that they can change sex easily when that is not true. If you are told that you can't change sex, only the most persistent children with real gender-dysphoria would continue to insist that they are the opposite sex. However, I reckon about 90% of the ones now referred to gender clinics would desist pretty easily.

The TWAW mantra is misleading and harmful. Trans women are trans women. In many situations, they can be treated the same as biological women- in a small number of situations they can't. Arguing the toss over who and what is a real woman is pointless and stupid. Focus on giving people the rights and protections they need- not feed them some bullshit that they then have to discover years later is not true.

I haven't read through the twitter thread but I'm betting now, before I look, that he will be told he 'wasn't proper trans'.

I have also seen 'that's not really him- it's a TERF in disguise trying to derail trans rights'.

Just need some of the kids put on blockers to come forward (maybe even sue their parents), but likely to be another 5-10 years or so I guess.

It is not particularly helpful to divert this discussion to Trump.

Jamie Shrup specifically credits Trump in his blog piece. It might not be helpful to talk about Trump, but Jamie Shrup is talking about Trump.

I’ve just seen on Twitter that Jamie has had his account suspended!

jamieshupe.wordpress.com/2019/02/11/jamie-shupe-twitter-locked-my-account-today/

TW comes first in Twitter.

No off message information (regardless of how true or necessary to others) may be shared. Absolutely no negative publicity allowed. In case people read it. And start thinking. And asking questions. Like WTAF.

I hope the papers pick this one up too.

I just read the medium article - it’s really interesting and I applaud Shupe for coming out again (as a biological man)!

He has some really interesting ways of phrasing things - I particularly liked his description of GRS as ‘genital lobotomy’ and transmen as ‘footsoldiers for the bathroom wars’.

I also really appreciated his understanding of his wife’s experience of being a woman as being completely different to his experience of ‘living as a woman’ - his acknowledgment of her material reality of female biology (worrying about accidental pregnancy, carrying, birthing and breastfeeding their child) was refreshing to read, after all the awful period/infertility appropriation we’ve seen elsewhere.

Would love to see this story getting a proper airing.