Interesting article on trans twin in Today's Times

[Cismyfatarse1]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/interview-with-trans-twins-arno-and-nora-monsecour-born-identical-boys-now-brother-and-sister-qzzxb38zz?shareToken=245b84fe78a26c70374259c671de1302

I haw not yet had time to read it but thought others might find it interesting.

Actually read it now. It is a link between a film, "Girl" which is Oscar nominated as a foreign film and the transwoman who advised on it.

That transwoman is an identical twin - ballet twin and football twin.

It sounds like fairly crippling gender dysphoria and self harm. Netflix are even hesitating about shoeiping the film (fictionalised but brutal in places).

I had not heard of the film.

Taking a step back here.

Reality TV income streams:

2000s- Well known and whacky family of a rock star, crazy behaviour and antics. Mother has had major surgery.

2010- Well known family, whose notoriety arose from a sex tape, all of whom have had major facial and body surgeries.

2019-only new avenue for income streams: family known primarily for the major surgeries conducted on their children’s genitalia and bodies.

Since when has a child’s psychological distress been an acceptable income stream/platform for self promotion?

Two thoughts. Firstly they seem like lovely people.

Secondly - perhaps not enough info to go on in the article but - I read it as child was happily gender non conforming; parent sees a quiz and decides child is trans; adolescence is hard as it often is but especially hard because child is trans. No mention of unhappiness early on, just of not conforming to gender stereotypes.

Are we allowed to imagine a world in which the gender non conforming child became a gender non conforming adolescent and then adult? Have I missed something?

stillathing I thought the same as you. All about reductive stereotypes. Blockers at 11 and female hormones at 16. Idk really. Clearly some people really do feel highly distressing dysphoria but why is counselling not the right treatment for this rather than hormones and surgery. I am not sure I will ever understand that aspect of things.

I just posted a link to this article, written by a gay man, on another thread. The way he felt as a child sounds very similar to Nora's experience.

quillette.com/2019/01/31/homophobia-and-the-modern-trans-movement/

But the way we discuss trans people shows that we have not truly given up on the idea of pathologizing effeminate men. The old paradigm presented effeminate men as homosexuals who could be cured of their sexual desires. The new paradigm presents effeminate boys as children who can be cured by declaring them girls.

Children who haven’t gone through puberty lack perspective on the ultimate consequences—both psychological and physical—of their choices. Moreover, since gender and sexuality are linked in real life, it is difficult for any person to understand their identity as a human being (never mind the more narrow category of gender identity) without first experiencing post-adolescent sexual desire.

If someone had told me as a child that I could actually be a little girl, I would have jumped at the chance. Anything to escape the pressure cooker of an active boyhood crammed full of sports and rough play.

Thread here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496512-Homophobia-and-the-Modern-Trans-Movement

Transing children always comes down to stereotypes. Who knows if Nora would have grown up to be a gay man? Children need to go through puberty to discover who they are. If they then still need to transition as adults, do it then, but 80-90% will not identify as the opposite sex post-puberty.

In this case, the idea of transition seems to have come from the parents - effeminate boy, parents want to know why, they hear about transgender - that must be it.