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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Great article by Andrew Sullivan

10 replies

2019StandingforWomen · 01/02/2019 20:22

I think this is a really beautifully written and sensitive article and has been generated because of Posie Parkers visit to America.

nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/02/andrew-sullivan-the-nature-of-sex.html?__twitter_impression=true

"Contemporary transgender ideology is not a complement to gay rights; in some ways it is in active opposition to them."

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2019StandingforWomen · 01/02/2019 20:24

"There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in natureandthe immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.

We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it."

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AbsintheFriends · 01/02/2019 20:39

Sometimes, when you read something that just makes perfect sense and articulates things with absolute clarity, does it make you feel a bit tearful? It does me.

Thanks for sharing, op.

(Tearfulness could also be due to Friday night wine... 🍷)

2019StandingforWomen · 01/02/2019 20:57

I absolutely agree. A completely lovely article written by a fantastic gay rights advocate. It does give you a little bit of hope that the sensible and sensitive people can see women's point of view.

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heresyandwitchcraft · 01/02/2019 21:09

Excellent piece by Andrew Sullivan Star!

WokeNotBloke · 01/02/2019 21:15

Nicely done.. other than calling us terfs 🙄

AnyOldPrion · 01/02/2019 21:31

when you read something that just makes perfect sense and articulates things with absolute clarity, does it make you feel a bit tearful?

I can’t say it makes me tearful, but every time I read something that sets out the problems so clearly, I wonder how on Earth there are still people who fail to see the issues. And then I feel newly filled with rage as there must be people, intelligent people, who are refusing to see what is right under their nose.

nauticant · 01/02/2019 21:32

I don't mind Sullivan not taking issue with the term "TERF". The value of this article is that someone can start out from a very different place, and go on a very different journey, and still arrive at roughly the same destination as us: that gender identity ideology is damaging and very wrong-headed.

And he gets to what I think is one of the fundamental points:

We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved.

nettie434 · 01/02/2019 22:15

Thanks for sharing 2019Standingforwomen - it’s really well argued and I finally understand what the Equality Act changes would mean for the USA. It’s one of the things that is so good about this board. You read things that you would never have seen otherwise. And there are lots of witty and wise women.

AnneHutchinson · 01/02/2019 23:35

I'm very glad to see the courage of the women at the Heritage panel honoured. They knew they'd take fire for it, and they did it anyway. I don't know a better definition of courage than that.

Oxytocindeficient · 02/02/2019 08:31

Thank you for sharing this, it’s really well written. I especially like this bit and would like to see it pointed out more:

We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated.

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