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Original poster

Drag Syndrome?

32 replies

Trinity333 · 30/01/2019 19:05

Quite disturbed by something I’ve come across and would love your opinions on this to help me decide if it’s something I should be getting upset about!. I’m the mum of a little boy with Downs Syndrome so appreciate that might be the case, although the comments on the linked article suggest many others are also disgusted. Thank you in advance.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/drag-syndrome-lgbt-activist-creates-drag-show-using-males-suffering-with-do

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Fallingirl · 30/01/2019 20:20

The comments are a mixed bag. I agree with the ones arguing that men with Downs syndrom are being used by the organisers to show off how inclusive they are, and if they genuinely wanted to be inclusive they could have just invited the men along and hung out with them as friends.

But the ones talking about “the gay agenda” and juxtaposing “innocent” men with Downs and “perverts” are genuinely intolerant. They also seem to construct people with Downs as too innocent and childlike to have a sexuality, let alone a lgbt one.

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Trinity333 · 30/01/2019 21:00

Yes the comments are mixed and vary in their reasons for objecting., many seem quite homophobic as you said. Down’s is such a spectrum that’s it is difficult to tell how much the participants are aware of what they are taking part in. I know my son would let people dress him up and dance around thinking it was great, but he would have no idea what he was consenting to. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 30/01/2019 21:29

Gut reaction is that it's poor taste and potentially exploiting young people who don't have full awareness in a side show kind of way; at the same time, an adult with syndrome could make the choice to participate and I know many people with ds love the stage and performing.

Plenty of drama groups out there though.

NeurotrashWarrior · 30/01/2019 21:32

Gut reaction is that it's poor taste and potentially exploiting young people who don't have full awareness in a side show kind of way; at the same time, an adult with syndrome could make the choice to participate and I know many people with ds love the stage and performing.

Plenty of drama groups out there though.

Calvinsmam · 30/01/2019 21:53

Oh I’m torn on this.

I know a young man with Down syndrome who would LOVE this, he’s very aware of his sexuality and loves dressing up in drag and being fabulous and though he’s got a disability he’s an adult and this would make his life.

It depends on the tone for me. I love drag when it’s ‘everyone just being fabulous’ and men and women can both join in and gender bend.
But if it’s more ‘female impersonation’ I’m less comfortable with it.

Skyzalimit · 30/01/2019 22:24

I know one of those guys and he gets so much out of it. He's a balanced person with an interesting and fulfilling life. He teaches others performing arts and has this incredible skill of drawing people out.

Skyzalimit · 30/01/2019 22:25

I mean one of the guys with Downs, not the organisers!

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Trinity333 · 31/01/2019 05:40

Really good to hear that you know someone doing this and he’s happy Skyzalimit, that’s reassuring. I think if the motivations of the organisers are just to be inclusive that’s probably ok, although as others have said there’s other ways to do this. I think because the organiser is an activist it makes me think that there may be some agenda, and with photos like this of Travis Alabamza (Top Shop changing rooms fame) being involved I can’t help but think there’s more to this than just being inclusive.Hope I’m wrong and just being over sensitive as I can just see my son being exploited so easily.

Drag Syndrome?
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Thingybob · 31/01/2019 07:12

Yes they are being used and abused in order to promote a culture they have little understanding of.

Calvinsmam · 31/01/2019 07:38

a culture they have little understanding of

Wow. That’s so patronising.

Thingybob · 31/01/2019 08:17

Calvinsmam, so you think they do have a good understanding of the ideology they are representing? They know what identity and gender ideology is? Or understand the place of drag in gay culture?

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 31/01/2019 08:43

They called it Extra Chromosome Drag Night. Ugh.

Horsewithnoman · 31/01/2019 09:20

Isn't "drag" taking the piss out of women?

I'm uncomfortable with it because it seems to be a one way street - where are the women who dress up in an exaggeratedly masculine way for the amusement of audiences? It's pretty non-existent compared to things like Rupaul on prime time telly and that. French and Saunders were quite funny with their depiction of the oppressor class. But that's the only exception I can think of.

It's panto season still, yeah?

...(oh yes it is!)

HomeStar · 31/01/2019 09:30

The guy with Downs Syndrome that I know best is a wildly camp person, so I guess that’s influencing my judgement. He would LOVE this. If the participants were recruited from a dance/drama group for people with learning disabilities they are probably all having a ball.

But given the recent skeeviness with drag culture and kids, and the presence of unsavoury types like Alabanza on this project.. I can see why your alarm bells are going off, OP. And drag culture walks some uneasy lines by its nature and it’s steeped in rather malicious humour... it’s easy to imagine these performances taking on an edge of exploitation where the performers are made into a joke. I’m sure this event is OK and good fun for all concerned, but if this became A Thing that happens regularly, it could go sour quickly.

IconicWaffle · 31/01/2019 09:41

Unless you have an objection to drag itself (which is fair enough) you can’t make any sweeping generalisations about whether it is exploitative to include adults with Down’s syndrome. People with Downs are as individual as anyone else, some will absolutely have capacity to understand the history and meaning of drag and choose to participate fully, some may understand it but recoil at the mere thought of glitter and dancing. Some may love glitter and dancing but might not have the cognitive ability to understand what drag is all about. If those that have taken part are safe and happy (not just with their own participation but with the branding, publicity etc) then so be it.

Calvinsmam · 31/01/2019 09:44

Calvinsmam, so you think they do have a good understanding of the ideology they are representing? They know what identity and gender ideology is? Or understand the place of drag in gay culture?

Why wouldn’t they? It’s not particulary complicated. They probably haven’t got a phd in the subject but neither have lots of people.

Horsewithnoman · 31/01/2019 09:56

I have had another thought:

If it is (rightly) unacceptable for white guys (oppressor class) to black up for a party or Othello and that, why should it be acceptable for men (oppressor class) to pretend to be women on stage? Often in a hyper sexualised, hyper feminine or otherwise goady way?

Surely one is racist and the other sexist?

And if you agree, then surely THAT'S why young or vulnerable people shouldn't be getting involved with the drag - because it's sexist. And a child or perhaps someone with DS can't be expected to understand that aspect.

It's making sexism fun, I get that.

Please don't anyone think I'm some sort of killjoy fuddy duddy. Sarcasm emoji.

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Trinity333 · 31/01/2019 10:03

I think this is the worry I have. Some will have the capacity to understand and some won’t. My son loves dressing up as Elsa from Frozen and dancing around and would probably love the lights music etc of this, but definitely wouldn’t understand what he was taking part in. He does do a lot of this sort of thing at school but I don’t have concerns because I trust the school and know it’s a creative outlet for the students. The school however has safeguarding in place and as far as I know the teachers aren’t activists. I’d just like to know if the organisers of Drag Syndrome have similar safeguarding measures to ensure that the participants are do have the capacity to consent to this because I can’t find any.

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Thingybob · 31/01/2019 10:51

One further thong that makes this sinister as far as I'm concerned is that it is just for people with DS. No other group would ever do this, groups and activities are always open to others with similiar cognitive impairments.

Calvinsmam · 31/01/2019 12:07

One further thong that makes this sinister as far as I'm concerned is that it is just for people with DS. No other group would ever do this, groups and activities are always open to others with similiar cognitive impairments

That’s not true. I know of a youth group for people with Down syndrome and lots of groups exist for specific people. There are groups for people with autism and deaf people and loads of others.

Thingybob · 31/01/2019 12:37

Yes for ASD and Deaf people, they have specific needs. What needs does someone with DS have that others with a similiar learning disability doesn't?

Calvinsmam · 31/01/2019 12:41

What needs does someone with DS have that others with a similiar learning disability doesn't?

Well they all have Down’s Syndrome.
I’m sure that there’s groups where they can be with people of a similar learning disability but I certainly don’t see anything sinister about having a group just for people with Downs Syndrome.

Inaboatwithoutapaddle247 · 31/01/2019 12:53

Everyone has their own views on this.
One of my children (little boy) has Down's and I just see him as an individual.
I personally wouldn't place him in a group that was solely for people with Down's but that's just how I feel and I appreciate others may feel differently.
He's a little boy with his own personality, his own likes and dislikes.
Down's is just a very small part of him. It doesn't define him.

Original poster
Trinity333 · 31/01/2019 12:57

I’m not sure that them all having Downs means that they have a lot in common. There are 5 people in my sons school with Downs and their cognition and needs vary so much that they are all in different classes except for 2 as they are placed according to needs rather than diagnosis. Many are prone to physical disabilities, especially with their hearts, but many are not. I get frustrated when people say to me, ‘aren’t they so loving and cuddly though’. My son cannot stand people touching him without a warning.

My other son goes to a club for children with high functioning autism/Aspergers and seems to have a lot in common with the other children so that makes sense.

I can’t find anything within driving distance of us just for Downs (and I’ve looked). I’ve been told it’s because there are not the numbers of people with Downs being born to warrant it.

I’ve seen Otto Baxter in other things if that’s the person you know Calvin’smum and I don’t think he is being coerced at all, but I would like to know what safeguarding is in place to make sure exploitation doesn’t happen.

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