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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brendan O'Neill "Terfs aren't Bigoted" Spiked

41 replies

OtepotiLilliane42 · 29/01/2019 07:18

Just read this article, and am wondering if I should email a copy to NZ Wellington lawyer Steph Dyhrberg as a polite reminder as to who is actually using hate speech in the transgender debate.

www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/28/it-isnt-terfs-who-are-bigoted-its-their-persecutors/

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 30/01/2019 14:32

Sackrifice - it's more a case that we aren't responsible for whoever else may happen to agree with us on certain issues. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

sackrifice · 30/01/2019 14:35

There really is some right flapping going on now that 'not just those evil women on mumsnet' are seeing through the ideology, isn't there? Testerical rage even.

Freespeecher · 30/01/2019 14:42

I quite understand that MsVanillaRoseAuntof7 has her reservations (and grows testy when women seem to be leaving them).

sackrifice · 30/01/2019 14:55

Weirdly I don't rely on spiked! to feel ok.

I feel just fine with my working knowledge of biology and if anyone wants to agree with me that is just fine too.

If anyone disagrees that is their choice to make. But also their job to provide evidence to the contrary.

I've been asked for about 18 months for this evidence and am still waiting.

Perhaps Ms Vanilla rose can be the person that finally provides the evidence we have all been waiting for?

ChattyLion · 30/01/2019 20:53

I think most of us have moved beyond the idea that if x says y then it’s always right (..or it’s always wrong..) just because it’s x that said it.

I think Spiked’s politics are a load of old crap but on this one issue they are consistently right from a free speech perspective. They’re not feminist, but we already know that.

AnneHutchinson · 30/01/2019 20:57

The free speech issue is a very big component of this fight -- I'm grateful for anyone fighting it.

If you think thought-crime will stop at sex/gender issues, you might not soon have the legal right to think what else you're not allowed to imagine thought-crime might police.

Totalitarians rarely limit their reach -- what they want is contained in the word itself.

MsVanillaRoseAuntof7 · 31/01/2019 10:06

sackrifice, there's this thing called google. Reading this article might help, you: slate.com/technology/2018/11/sex-binary-gender-neither-exist.html.

Love the way "Freespeecher" refers to my views on women as if I were not a woman! It's hilarious!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 31/01/2019 10:33

Aren’t you going to explain why the spiked article is wrong MsVanilla?

Or are ad him attacks all you’ve got?

ErrolTheDragon · 31/01/2019 11:28

Oh, FFS we all know about intersex people.

Has someone got a link to to recent More or Less with analysis of statistics btw?

Anyone who thinks there are more than two actual sexes doesn't seem to understand what sex is. Oddly enough, members of a parenting board mostly do.

As to gender - as many as you wish, construct 'gender' however you want. Or just treat people as individuals with a range of characteristics.

Zwischenwasser · 31/01/2019 11:31

Im rather amethyst someone is coming onto a (predominantly) parenting website to tell us sex isn’t a binary.

Looks at 3yo in the corner of the room

How the fuck did THAT happen then?

Zwischenwasser · 31/01/2019 11:32

amethyst

WTF autocorrect

sackrifice · 31/01/2019 11:58

Amusingly intersex people are still either male or female. They can't switch, that isn't what intersex means.

Qcng · 31/01/2019 14:43

I self identify as intersex, so I know all about that thanks.

placemats · 31/01/2019 15:57

@MsVanillaRoseAuntof7

Spiked used to be LivingMarxism.

Yes, it does have a Koch brothers agenda when it comes to climate change.

But it's no different to the anti science agenda of those who believe that a person can change sex. Or those who don't believe in vaccinations.

RiotAndAlarum · 31/01/2019 19:13

@ErrolTheDragon , here: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000222z (More Or Less: Tim Harford on intersex stats)

frazzled1 · 31/01/2019 19:55

It is perfectly natural – good, in fact – that some people have deep reservations about this strange new crisis of gender, this trend for diagnosing wrong-body syndrome among people who might just be confused about their sexuality or worried about puberty or unhappy in some other way.

Feminists, for example, are worried that the politics of transgenderism will allow male-born people to enter what were once considered female-only spaces and even to take certain roles and jobs away from women. In the UK feminists have set up groups like Woman’s Place to make the case against allowing people who were born male to ‘self-ID’ as women – that is, where the law would allow any man to identify as a woman and would put pressure on employers and institutions to recognise the validity of his (sorry, her) womanhood.

This will mean born-males getting on to all-women shortlists in the world of party politics, they argue. It will mean born-males waltzing into women’s toilets and changing rooms. And it will mean men in women’s prisons. It already does, in fact. Men who identify as women have been incarcerated with women, and it has had disastrous consequences in some cases. In 2017, Karen White – who was born Stephen Wood – was placed in the female prison of New Hall in West Yorkshire. Despite being a convicted paedophile, rapist and sexual assaulter of women. While at New Hall, White / Wood assaulted two female inmates.

Great article, thank you Brendan.

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