Would you unfollow

[hazandduck]

I am an enormous fan of an artist on Instagram, he is an ex Disney animator and an art lecturer, very talented, I have all his books and absolutely adore his work.

He is the proud father of daughters which I think is relevant. I was absolutely shocked to see this post this morning on his Instagram page. Many, many of his followers have shared my disgust. Would you unfollow?

Why oh why do (usually white) middle-aged men persist in wanting to control women’s bodies? Makes me sick.

Hope the pics upload.

I found the cut off mother’s head in his drawing particularly tasteless, completely dehumanising the woman and clearly showing how little he values her life over the baby’s.

Not all families are in a position to be able to handle this, especially in places where one does not have socialized medicine or other social supports and the costs of millions in healthcare have to come from somewhere.

That's a very valid point that I'm embarrassed not to have considered myself.

As a PP said, terminations are not sought on a whim at this stage of pregnancy (I personally don’t think many terminations are sought on a whim at any stage, it’s a difficult choice and generally has emotional consequences).

Even here in Canada where there is no actual gestational limit on abortions, only about 2% occur after 21 weeks. The majority are in the 9-12 week period (41%) (based on 2009 data). The reasons most may be in that period can be timing/discovery but I also know when I was a teenager and sought an abortion as soon as I knew I was pregnant at about 2-3 weeks my medical providers wanted to wait until at least 8 weeks to ensure better chances of removing all tissue (this was a surgical abortion as medical ones were not available then).

The New York law already allowed abortion after 24 weeks if the mother's life was in danger. It was simply amended to include a provision for cases when the fetus is unviable, so that a women wouldn't have to keep carrying a child that she knew was dying - or even already dead. It certainly wouldn't used for convenience! www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/andrew-cuomo-abortion-bill_us_5c480bebe4b0b66936751a47

hazenduck I'd tell him this, then wait to see if he accepts it or not.

I was a teenager and sought an abortion as soon as I knew I was pregnant at about 2-3 weeks my medical providers wanted to wait until at least 8 weeks to ensure better chances of removing all tissue (this was a surgical abortion as medical ones were not available then).

I had a similar experience in my 20s, I was offered medical but advised that surgical at had less risk of complications etc so opted for that.

the woman's life may become threatened. Mine was. Baby born at 28 weeks, me in icu.

If you have a blanket ban on terminations after a certain time, that muddies the waters where a pregnancy has to be ended early to keep the mother safe, and the baby dies. You could end up with some doctors leaving it until beyond the last minute, as with that poor woman that was visiting Ireland.

I actually agree with him. I am 100% begins early term elective abortion but that is because I believe that a woman has Wright over her own body. In the third trimester it is not necessary to kill the foetus in order to exert bodily autonomy. This is a right to kill essentially. I don’t find it ethically palatable. Unfollow him if you want but women also have moralreservstions.

@grumpygran thanks for finding that, far more reasonable than non medical abortions to term. In that case better to clarify than outright unfollow.

I guess you haven't read the thread, @KarmaWhore where people have described situations where late term abortions were necessary. I appreciate that you have your own views about this, but you can't ignore that there are reasons why abortions after 20 weeks might happen, and not at all about women being irresponsible.

KarmaWhore urgh your post is awful and inaccurate scaremongering.

Men can have any opinion they want. It just doesn’t mean much when it comes to policing women’s bodies.

Few people are 100% pro-choice. For me, it is not a question of deciding what women do with their bodies, but a case of regulating the medical profession and deciding the kind of society we want to live in. Everyone has a say in that.

There are some women on this planet who truly have no control over their bodies. Very few of them live in developed countries like the UK with access to multiple forms of free contraception which are routinely spurned and/or misused.

I find it worrying that several people are assuming that there is no medical reason to terminate a pregnancy after 20 weeks after it has been explained on this thread that this is not the case.

KarmaWhore

How judgmental. Women facing the decision to terminate a pregnancy where either their life is at risk or the fetus is non-viable (or baby may be born in tremendous pain for a very short few minutes or hours of pain) are not warped for making the choice that is right for them in all the circumstances, including for example not wanting to inflict a painful childbirth and death on that fetus, or not wanting to leave their children already born without a mother. All nice to think the baby would live if you died but if the fetus is dependent on you how is that going to work out, you may both die.

But sure, blame women for “not taking more responsibility for their bodies”. Always nice when people who are anti-choice also seem to say pregnancy - even a dangerous one - is just a punishment for having sex.

Sounds like you are reading a lot of the anti-choice propaganda to be honest, as there are a variety of medical procedures used for late term abortions depending on the situation, such as early labour induction of an intact fetus, intact D&E, etc. But that is not as “shocking” as claiming the only way is that fetuses are “pulled apart”. When the latter happens, the process is the fetus dies instantly due to vacuum suction removing the fetal heart and other organs, and removal of remainder of fetus happens after this instant death and is to reduce infection risk to woman. The fetus is not dismembered while alive.

@Kharmawhore that is all well and good saying you would rather die than your baby - I felt that fierce protectiveness myself - but don’t you think it would be selfish in some cases to potentially leave behind other children, or even just your partner to deal with raising a newborn and the grief of losing the mother to their child?

I don’t think men should have a say in women’s bodies.

@grumpygran thank you for the article link. Not sure if I will be bold enough to send to him direct! Will try and be brave 😬

Even here in Canada where there is no actual gestational limit on abortions, only about 2% occur after 21 weeks

On a previous thread where this was discussed I found a link to research showing doctors in Canada were reluctant to carry out terminations after 20 weeks and women were actually travelling to the US for late abortions.

Some are reluctant to carry them out as it is a bit more specialized, and where there is not “medical reason”, but they are available to women. In the U.S. I think it is something like 1.4% of abortions are after 21 weeks but keep in mind in many states access to abortion at all, whatever stage, is severely restricted, and many outright ban late term abortions.

The documentary After Tiller is a great one to watch about the lack of accessibility - even for medical need - to third term abortions in the US, and about the doctors who do provide them and why (even at risk to themselves).

Just a quick update, the artist has now removed the post so evidently was embarrassed about it.

Good.

You are not required to feel obligated to follow anyone who posts anything that makes you feel uncomfortable in any way.