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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My Meeting with Maria Miller MP

61 replies

IAmDavidLewis · 19/01/2019 18:53

As a Basingstoke resident, I was able to request a meeting with my MP, Maria Miller. This meeting took place on Friday, 11th January and I thought I’d share it with you, as I found it quite interesting and informative.

I asked her first about what she said back in 2016:

“...there seems to be an undercurrent of opinion among some that trans people shouldn’t be treated equally, even when they’ve had a legal change in their gender, and that in some way this is a threat to women; I simply reject that.

But [single-sex services, such as rape crisis centres] should be supporting trans women”

Versus what she said at the end of December:

“... focus on getting services right first and foremost, and also be clear that there is no threat to single-sex services, they are clearly protected in law”.

She does not consider what she said in December to be any kind of back-track, despite what Helen Lewis wrote.

She told me that there is no threat to single-sex spaces because there is an adequate risk assessment process that ensures a trans person is placed either somewhere that recognises their gender or recognises that women should be kept separate from that person. With regards to the justifiable and proportionate discrimination in the Equality Act, it’s “superfluous” because this risk assessment is already being done.

She said that there’s no evidence that trans women are going around raping women and girls, at least none that she has seen. Critics have to go to other countries (e.g. Canada) or to the prison service “which is segregated by gender for very specific reasons”. However, she did say to send any evidence of trans women being a danger to women and girls, “other than in prisons”.

She equated being trans today in the UK to being black in the 60s in the UK, basically that people fear what they don’t know, and equated Gender Dysphoria with homosexuality, in as much as neither should be considered mental health issues.

When I mentioned “unconditional self ID as a legal change of sex”, her response was surprising. She said no one in Government has said that the GRA consultation was suggesting unconditional self ID as a legal change of sex. In her mind, the only change being put forward is to remove the medical diagnosis. Whilst she didn’t say it explicitly, this indicates that she expects the rest of the criteria to remain in place (2 years in acquired gender, documentary proof, etc), so a meaningful transition would need to be evident for someone to gain a GRC.

Her reason for removing the medical diagnosis is that doctors often don’t have a clue about a suitable and respectful diagnosis process. She said there are questions such as “have you dressed as a woman for two years?” We were able to agree that’s a pretty bad question to ask anyone! Given a poor diagnosis process, the push to concentrate on improving services and support seems very sensible. She’s actually quite annoyed that self ID got pushed to the forefront.

In her mind, the only reason people are criticising trans ideology is transphobia itself. “They fear what they don’t know”... (okay then, explain Miranda and Debbie and Fionne and and and...). She mentioned Bangladesh as a place where society is accepting of trans women. She feels that schools have an important role in talking to students about transgenderism.

I made a strong statement about tackling gender stereotypes as part of the education that schools should undertake. She did agree with me, which felt a quite positive outcome. I said that I hoped it would be included as part of the GRA consultation, but she replied that it wouldn’t be as the scope of the consultation had already been determined.

She got a little annoyed with me when I said that “the other side” had safeguarding concerns about men who’d abuse the system. The Government, at least, does not want safeguards to be compromised. I did say about the stats showing that men and trans women have the same level of offending, indicating that transition didn’t actually reduce the danger posed by men. The reply? NAMALT. She also mentioned trans men, only in as much as no one seems to have a problem with them.

I felt she assumed I was mostly uninformed and pointed me to Stonewall and students at Queen Mary College, as “young people seem to get it”.

She repeated her line from the Fawcett Society Courage Calls: Ask Her To Stand event (“Trans women are women, that’s the law”), my only regret being I forgot to point out that the EHRC guidance now disagrees with her. Seems it’s quite difficult to interrupt an MP in full flow!

So the main thing is that she clearly believes a trans woman is someone who looks and acts like a woman, someone who is making or has made a meaningful transition. Just saying you are one isn’t enough in her opinion, it would seem. Regardless of GRC, if you try to “pass”, you’re a woman.

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 21/01/2019 10:24

Don't look at Canada! Look at Bangladesh! Hmm

I've noticed Canada rarely features on the list we keep being given of places where self-ID is supposedly working really well. It's always Ireland, Malta and Argentina.

Ereshkigal · 21/01/2019 10:27

Indeed. Canada? Nothing to see there! It's all going really well in these countries!

needmorespace · 21/01/2019 11:37

AugustL off topic but whoa! you did all that on your phone!!
Everything you said I totally agree with.
A problem I have though is that when face to face with someone I find it difficult to articulate the issues and counter-arguments as you have.

Threewheeler1 · 21/01/2019 11:52

Nice work OP.
It's always enlightening when a female MP feels able to discount the horrendous things that happen to women & kids every day at the hands of men, and reply with a chirpy NAMALT.
So, as far as I can see, Maria Miller still doesn't give a shit about safeguarding for anyone but TW, and it's especially important for her that nobody, Doctors included, ask them any uncomfortable questions because questions are evil and life threatening...Angry

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/01/2019 11:55

I wonder what will happen the first time a GC feminist actually encounters a real transwoman in a real life bathroom situation - if it ever actually happens.

All toilets will be mixed sex is self ID goes ahead. So the issue is not so much transwomen in toilets as MEN in toilets.

Do you think all of toilets should be mixed sex? I wonder if the House of Commons bogs will become mixed sex? I somehow doubt it.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 21/01/2019 11:57

Do bet the OP came out of her office with "I will not tell lies" carved into the back of their hand.....

AngryAttackKittens · 21/01/2019 12:06

I did say about the stats showing that men and trans women have the same level of offending, indicating that transition didn’t actually reduce the danger posed by men. The reply? NAMALT.

Is this why she's being so belligerently stupid about the whole thing, do you think? Because the very idea of acknowledging male violence as a thing that exists offends her?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 21/01/2019 12:16

No it's because her friends are the ones wanting it and she's sold her soul to them.

Ereshkigal · 13/03/2019 11:39

Topical bump

Lumene · 13/03/2019 11:45

Her reason for removing the medical diagnosis is that doctors often don’t have a clue about a suitable and respectful diagnosis process.

Why the living fuck would someone think this was a good idea? If Doctors are not being respectful let’s remove them from the process and let patients self-diagnose instead. Seriously?!?

Lumene · 13/03/2019 11:48

She equated being trans today in the UK to being black in the 60s in the UK,

The correct analogy would be to equate being trans with blacking up and (in some activists cases) demanding the rights and spaces of those born black.

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