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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help - I'm about to teach teenage boys about porn and consent......

54 replies

MrsTumbletap · 19/01/2019 12:07

Hi all secondary teacher here and I'm due to teach sexual health this term. To male and female students aged 16-18. I have all the STD, condoms and revenge porn stuff covered. But I actually want to go into depth about consent and porn and how damaging it is, for both male and female participants such as depression, MH issues, lack of empathy for rape victims etc.

I have just found the link to a TED talk on another thread and I'm going to talk about the sexual violence. But does anybody have any links/articles that I could show? As I'm finding stuff that has a lot of inappropriate images or inappropriate language.

I can't for example use the TED talk as the language would result in parental complaints.

So I need to talk about how awful it is but I can't show it in picture or with videos, if you see what I mean.

Any help would be really appreciated.

OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 19/01/2019 13:28

Teenage girls can be very box ticky too of course and want to try stuff.

The issue comes that with sex the risks if it doesn't go well (even if consensual) are very much mainly on the female in het relationships. She is the one who will end up injured / pregnant and STDs are passed more readily male>female that vice versa.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 19/01/2019 13:29

Also the dynamic that media etc tells boys to "go for it" and if they keep on at girls they will eventually get what they want
While girls are told essentially yo be nice (and that if boys go on at you it's because they really like you)

So there is that too.

Sorry OP this isn't helping you though!

MrsTumbletap · 19/01/2019 13:39

I have just stumbled on this which has some interesting stuff. Is says the government has said by Sep 2019 all schools should be teaching relationships and sexual health. I like that relationships are forming part of that narrative.

www.dosreforschools.com/how-do-can-help/do-for-educators/lesson-plans-and-stimulus/#lesson-stimulus

OP posts:
MrsTumbletap · 19/01/2019 13:43

I want to cover
•safe sex
•Porn it's effects and that's it's not real/damaging without encouraging hem all to go and look for these horrific things you see on porn.hub
•Loving relationships without shaming young people that have had sex outside of a relationship, that part is tricky as I don't want to say the only sex you should have is in a loving relationship. I want to empower them but also keep them safe.
•I want to talk about consent and that enthusiasm is one of the main ways you can determine consent. As you can't ask questions every minute, but you can look for joyful enthusiasm.

I want to them to leave a little clearer, without scaring them.

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ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 19/01/2019 13:50

I’m sure there’s something about porn being very damaging for men. More younger men are being referred for psycho sexual counselling. Real life sex isn’t as stimulating as watching porn and masterbating so they can’t perform.

It’s tragic but I think boys / men will be more motivated to reduce their porn consumption based in the damage to them not their partners.
I’ll have a quick google and see if I can find something.

brizzledrizzle · 19/01/2019 13:55

I'd recommend the tea consent video as well - I watched it with my 15 year old the other day but it turned out that he'd seen it at school. I hope his teachers are going to do the porn lesson at some point, I was wondering whether to broach the subject with him but I'm not sure were to start.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 19/01/2019 13:55

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201401/is-male-porn-use-ruining-sex%3famp

I’ll try and work out how to do a linky one (linky autocorrected to kinky Grin)

FlyingOink · 19/01/2019 14:34

•Loving relationships without shaming young people that have had sex outside of a relationship, that part is tricky as I don't want to say the only sex you should have is in a loving relationship. I want to empower them but also keep them safe.
Not sure about this. The reality is many men still take the "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" approach. Many girls aren't able to get a boyfriend because soppy though they might be, boys only want to be known as FWB. Normalising that further does girls no favours.

Are you going to talk about naked selfies? I think girls need to be aware that image will almost definitely be shared, boys (and men) collect them and show their friends.
I know grown men who swap them like trading cards.

senua · 19/01/2019 14:49

Re peer pressure, would it be up-to-date and trendy to make a reference to that Gillette advertisment.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/01/2019 15:21

Re consent and a bit about about unrealistic expectations from what we see visually - you may be able to rework this a bit?

www.cracked.com/blog/how-men-are-trained-to-think-sexual-assault-no-big-deal/

Babdoc · 19/01/2019 15:48

An analogy that I found useful when talking to my own kids as teenagers:
“Learning about sex by watching porn is like learning to drive by watching Grand Theft Auto. Sexual violence and contempt of women is emphatically not how normal people in loving relationships have sex with each other.”

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 18:44

relevent & interesting Time article today:

'I’ve Talked With Teenage Boys About Sexual Assault for 20 Years. This Is What They Still Don’t Know
(extract)
"After my auditorium presentation, I typically visit a few classes for smaller group discussions about the themes of my book. In schools all over the country, in every demographic group imaginable, for 20 years, teenage boys have told me the same thing about the rape victim in Speak: They don’t believe that she was actually raped. They argue that she drank beer, she danced with her attacker and, therefore, she wanted sex. They see his violence as a reasonable outcome. Many of them have clearly been in the same situation.

They say this openly. They are not ashamed; they are ill-informed. These boys have been raised to believe that a rapist is a bad guy in the bushes with a gun. They aren’t that guy, they figure, so they can’t be rapists.

Why should they think otherwise? Their parents generally limit conversations about sex to “don’t get her pregnant” lectures. They learn about sex from friends, and from internet porn, where scenes of non-consensual sex abound. No one has ever explained the laws to them. They don’t understand that consent needs to be informed, enthusiastic, sober, ongoing and freely given.

This is only made worse by the other question I get most often from these teenage boys in the classroom: Why was the rape victim so upset? They explain, The sex only took a couple minutes, but she’s depressed for, like, a year. They don’t understand the impact of rape.

When a boy says these things, the girls in the class are shocked, and the teacher is appalled. They are stunned to discover how many of the guys don’t have a clue. So was I, at first. But I quickly learned that reacting with anger and judgment did not help anyone. Instead, I discuss the studies that show that 94% of women who are raped experience PTSD symptoms. Nearly a third of victims still have those symptoms 9 months after the rape, and 13% of women who are raped attempt suicide. Facts like that make an impact. I share resources like the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) website with the teacher, and encourage the staff to follow up my visit with presentations from mental health professionals and police officers.

After my recent visit to a school in California, a teacher told me that a boy came up to her after my presentation and said, “This is the kind of stuff we need to know, Miss.”

The empathetic boys searching for ways to help survivors and the boys who believe that rape only counts if it is committed by an armed stranger have more in common than you’d think. They struggle in the absence of information. They are looking for leadership and models of behavior. They share a desire to learn more.

Teenage boys are hungry for practical conversations about sex. They want to know the rules. They want to be the good guy, the stand-up, honorable dude. Their intentions might be good, but their ignorance is dangerous. Our society has begun talking a bit more openly about these issues, but that doesn’t mean teenage boys suddenly have all the information they need." (continues)

time.com/5503804/ive-talked-with-teenage-boys-about-sexual-assault-for-20-years-this-is-what-they-still-dont-know/

GrinitchSpinach · 19/01/2019 18:56

That's a fascinating piece, R0. Thank you!

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 19:07

Grinitch I thought so too.
It cropped up on my twitter time line by chance today

I don't know the writer, Laurie Halse Anderson, she explains:

"I started visiting schools two decades ago. It was after the publication of my novel, Speak , which tells the story of a teenage girl struggling through the emotional aftermath of being raped. It is commonly read in high school and college literature classes, and has proven to be a useful springboard to conversations about rape mythology, sexual violence and consent."

MotherForkinShirtBalls · 19/01/2019 19:13

There is loads of really useful info on here, good luck with the sessions they sound like they'll be really good. I don't have much to offer, but something I heard recently that suck with me is that icky means no. Anything at all in your life, a person, a situation, a request that makes you feel icky means you say no, without apology or explanation. You don't have to understand what is causing the icky feeling, just know it means no.

Moussemoose · 19/01/2019 19:23

Most young men want to be on the right side. Assume that.

They just get it wrong. You are helping not preaching.

boatyardblues · 19/01/2019 19:30

There is a really excellent TedTalk from a youngish guy from the middle east talking about why he gave up porn, where he dwells on the fact there is no intimacy or affectionate touching and how it was blunting his imagination and ability to romance his partner. I tried googling but I can’t find it.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 19/01/2019 19:34

There was an excellent documentary (Channel 4/5??) a couple of years ago about a Belgian teacher teaching a British class sex education. It dealt really well with some dodgy attitudes about consent, if I remember correctly. Maybe you could incorporate some of the activities she used.

Not sure if it's still accessible online but will have a look.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 19/01/2019 19:39

Sex in Class, Channel 4.

This is just the preview:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLnWFaEU718

boatyardblues · 19/01/2019 19:46

I remember that C4 show. When the Belgian teacher met with the boys they were all going on about how revolting pubic hair was on girls & women, so she issued every boy in the class with a razor and shaving gel and set them homework to shave their pubes off and stay hairless for a week. The following week several of them were complaining about itchy regrowth, rashes and the general faff. Point made.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 19/01/2019 20:12

The bit I remember most clearly was putting them into (mixed sex) groups and asking each group to come up with the ideal date. She then got some of the boys to read out what they had come up with. It started off ok but then it became more and more pornographic and the girls in the group were completely WTF? When asked if this was what they had agreed to in their groups, the girls said definitely not.

It was genuinely a revelation to the boys that the girls were disgusted by the notion of a boy "jizzing on her face". Even more so that doing it without a girl's permission was not ok.

There was one guy in particular who was very worrying with this kind of bravado at the start of the programme. By the end he had finally 'got it' and was visibly contrite.

Bananas87 · 19/01/2019 20:23

I believe sussex police force created a video about consent. And compared it to a cup of tea. No bad language no explicit images nothing inappropriate and makes it VERY clear.

2019Dancerz · 19/01/2019 21:18

Some of them are likely to have watched the Netflix series 13 Reasons Why which had a lot about sexual assault and rape and the impact on teenagers. I wouldn’t show them any of it (it’s primarily about suicide and I think quite dodgy in that regard) but could be something they will reference, the popular boy in it does not see his behaviour as wrong and other boys fall in line because he is powerful.

jamrollyolly · 19/01/2019 21:21

Haven't rtfs but thank you for taking an important issue so seriously.

MrsTumbletap · 19/01/2019 23:33

Thank you all so much. I have spent most of the day working on it and have lots of little videos and pieces of information form all the posts from you.

I'm going to do session 1 then the follow up session a fortnight later which will be more discussion based where I will ask a lot of the questions based on all the research I have found on here.

I have been having interesting discussions with DH about it too as he was over hearing some of the videos I was watching. He said it's changed a lot since he sneaked a look at boobs in playboy 30 years ago.

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