Consent is not the be-all and end-all

[MagicMix]

Following on from the thread about the impact of porn and other threads about the implausibility of consent to brutal practices.

The focus on sexual consent in feminism in recent years has been positive to a certain extent but I think we have lost nuance when we consider consent to be the key to sexual ethics.

Consent is not a green light for whatever you want, it is the bare minimum. Sex without consent is obviously very wrong (rape or sexual assault). And most feminists have at least some understanding that coerced consent is a problem and does not equate to true consent, although some seem unable to understand that paying someone is clear-cut coercion.

But we have to go further. Consent does not make everything all right. There are some things that can never be all right and the anti-kink-shaming 'sex-positive' thinking that refuses to condemn anything as long as someone is getting sexually aroused by it has led us down some very dark paths.

If you can stomach it, here is an article about a woman who claims to be sexually aroused by being waterboarded.
www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/waterboarding-kink-sex-bdsm-torture-779066/
Now I don't believe her and my personal opinion is that the M is BDSM is a form of self-harm, but really that is not the main point. The point is, somebody did that to her because she asked for it. People are quite literally torturing other people in the pursuit of sexual pleasure and we are expected to be non-judgmental.

The point is that the S in BDSM is sick and wrong. It was said on the other thread that we need to bring back kink shaming. Yes a thousand times. They can call me a prude, frigid, accuse me of being in a moral panic, I don't care. If someone gets sexual pleasure from hurting people, torturing people, acting out scenarios that put them in the role of rapist or slave-owner, I think that person has an unhealthy, dangerous sexuality and should seek help. It should not be accepted uncritically as harmless just because there was consent.

‘Feminists’ seem to be becoming more anti-choice for woman by the day. It’s concerning.

Surely there's some forum for people who like telling women they should shut the fuck up with their moaning you could get stuck into?

My opinions are just as valid as yours thanks, I know in an ideal world you would just shut everyone up who doesn’t agree with you, but I refuse to be a ‘subordinated’ woman and silenced in my opinion.

What’s your plan OP? Shall we have police in bedrooms to ensure a woman whose sexual preferences are different to yours is not able to engage?

Totally agree with OP. The whole thing about getting pleasure from inflicting pain and humiliation is just about the worst characteristic/instinct of humans. It should be denounced not treated as a bit edgy. Why are the very people who claim to value freedom also unable to understand the importance of restraint and shame. We've seen these dynamics play out many times in history.

No, Early we'd just like women to be free to make choices based on what they actually want and enjoy, rather than because they are being coerced or manipulated, either by their partner or society, into making a decision that harms them.

Do you know what? I'm of the view that people who think it's OK to hurt and rape and abuse others are not OK people. And the woke fools (mainly men with some dense women) who promote these ideas are doing great harm in normalising torture and abuse. And it's usually women and children on the receiving end of the abuse.

I wish these people would FOTTFSOFATFOSM.

But EJennings said it far more eloquently than me

I agree a woman should be free to do what she wants and not what society/partner etc wants her to do, why are you assuming a woman couldn’t possibly want those things and why do you want her to be shamed into not wanting those things?

If I say I enjoy anal sex, you will all tell me I don’t really enjoy it, it’s my evil husband and his porn addictions forcing me into it, because myself as a poor brainless woman couldn’t possibly know my own mind and what I enjoy doing

What’s your plan OP? Shall we have police in bedrooms to ensure a woman whose sexual preferences are different to yours is not able to engage?
Who's going to stop that woman from doing exactly what she wants in the bedroom?
I think the point is if the woman reports rape/sexual assault there are some acts it should be legally impossible to consent to.
In itself that should make doms/sadists a hell of a lot more cautious about who they dominate or hurt.
I believe the law is meant to be that it is impossible to use consent as a defence focusing harm, but that doesn't appear to apply to men penetrating women for some reason.

For causing, not focusing

EJennings I just want to applaud your excellent post.

If real life waterboarding sadomasochism is the hill you really want to die on, Earlywalker, knock yourself out.

Early, you may well enjoy anal sex when you do it. Good for you. But I am afraid I don't believe anyone enjoys getting beaten to the point of broken bones/choked/nails through their breasts/their vagina and anus torn/humiliated to the point of hysterical tears/slapped unconscious/shat on and made to eat it, etc.

Those are actions of torture and abuse. They don't become OK because the man gets an erection from doing it.

I really have no time for derailing on such an important issue. It’s been made abundantly clear we are talking about acts which cause damage and harm to a person, a follow-on from a post about a girl being so damaged she needs a colostomy bag.

there are some acts it should be legally impossible to consent to.

YY. Anyone who is prepared to do these things to another person should expect consequences may follow for them. Apart from just the risk of them causing serious harm to another person, which they obviously have to accept.

My opinions are just as valid as yours thanks,

What on earth makes you think that?

If I have decided that your opinions are driven by misogyny then they are without credit.

Right, because if we don’t like being physically abused when we engage in intercourse we must just be boring old hags who don’t know how to have good sex. What a lazy boring and tired old response that is.

anyone that lays like a dead fish in missionary and let’s your husband go on top that you’re really doing woman a disservice

Can anyone remember the men who were charged with something or other in the 80s after hammering nails into each other's penises which I just tried to google and there isn't enough eye bleach?

Applying critical analysis is not the same as policing bedrooms. Looking st legal procedure that now demands the state prove a negative is not the same as removing women’s bodily autonomy.

I think you may be going over some heads here.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his sex life salary depends upon his not understanding it!

anyone that lays like a dead fish in missionary and let’s your husband go on top that you’re really doing woman a disservice

Subtlety* is not some people's strong point, is it?

*by subtlety, I mean off the scale misogyny, natch.

Ah, Dead Fish in Missionary, the lost Faulkner novel.

Doesn't Ms Bunbury have a chapter on Dead Fish in Missionary?