Online communities feeding male entitlement to female spaces

[GrinitchSpinach]

In an effort to understand the thought process of male people who use female spaces such as toilets and changing rooms, I have been looking at transgender forums. (I posted two examples of what I found there here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3477317-Got-stared-at-in-the-restroom?pg=1
and here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3474880-I-used-the-girls-room-for-the-first-time-today)

On one of those threads, FlyingOink commented:
So the woman has kept quiet, while the protagonist learns to push boundaries further, with support from online chums.

I found this such an important point. The internet allows everyone to build ideological silos in which we needn't listen to opposing viewpoints. (I'm sure the TAs would say this about Mumsnet, though I'd argue it's absolutely not the case, as we are perfectly willing to argue our points civilly, whereas on someplace like Reddit moderators aggressively delete any questioning of the trans ideology.)

So I thought I'd make a thread documenting the way in which posters in trans forums, particularly young posters, seek affirmation and encouragement from other forum users about using women's spaces, rather than asking women and girls what we think about it. I am absolutely fascinated by the inwardness and narcissism of this process.

So, a new example to add from reddit mtf, with 118 upvotes, post title "Im using the womens room for the first time! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!"

The last screenshot, with the person describing feeling scared by a "sketchy/creepy guy" illustrates so perfectly the self-absorption of these male people who decide that they themselves either 1) wouldn't seem sketchy or creepy to women or 2) might seem sketchy or creepy to women, but the women's feelings in this case don't matter.

Person in second post just went to the mens as they didn't want to be followed into womens by creepy guy?

Are they taking the piss?

You couldn't make it up could you

No you really couldn't.

What a complete berk that person is.

GrinitchSpinach
4chan LGBT
This is an eye opener.
Ironically there's a long running thread (a "general") for "cis lesbians" and the posters on there are very transphobic!
Might be hard to follow as there are no usernames, but you can see who has replied to who by post number. Lots and lots of focus on MtF trans, self medication, etc

I am absolutely fascinated by the inwardness and narcissism of this process.

I am like you and have read through lots of similar posts and materials trying to understand the trans mindset. The conclusion I have come to and I've said it before (hopefully I won't get deleted this time) so much of the thought processes going on screams ASDs.

And please before you report me, I am not saying all those on the spectrum are "inward and narcissistic" but that many that show those traits are autistic.

Thingybob it's something I've noticed posters saying about themselves, could be self diagnosis though

FlyingOink

It is just so bloody obvious to anyone that has any experience of working/living with those on the spectrum who are high functioning. I am not trying to be critical or offensive to autistic people but I can see how cognitively it is so easy for them to evolve into TRAs.

Btw I have spend many decades working (and living) with autistic people so am fully supportive of them as individuals and will always speak up and protect those who are neurodiverse

I'll take your word for it, I don't know much about autism and Asperger's.
What I do know is the young men on some of these forums are very severely depressed. No job, no girlfriend, disturbing worldview, often very right or very left wing, I've seen a ton of memes about "can't get a girlfriend? Be the girlfriend". Posters openly admitting to having been incels, using that word, and then becoming social butterflies as they transition.
The social contagion aspect that is suspected to be part of ROGD in young women does seem to exist in young men too, and there might even be similar reasons (perception that one's sex has a hard time of it for boys, and the shitty reality of being sexualised against your will for girls).
It's just a theory but I think the polarisation of gender stereotypes has a lot to answer for.

It is an obscene level of entitlement - and such ignorance.

I saw that sketchy/creepy guy comment. Mate, you are the sketchy/creepy guy in the eyes of women who don't know you. Except a woman wouldn't have the option of going to the mens loo instead.

It beggars belief how deluded and unaware this person is. Everyone else is just a prop to their sexual fetish.

so much of the thought processes going on screams ASDs.

No, they don't and that is a very offensive comment to people like me who are on the spectrum.

I am not trying to be critical or offensive to autistic people but I can see how cognitively it is so easy for them to evolve into TRAs.

Well, you've succeeded well done.

And the comment that "Btw I have spend many decades working (and living) with autistic people so am fully supportive of them as individuals and will always speak up and protect those who are neurodiverse" is hugely patronising and offensive.

It is just like TRAs who think that because they come into contact with women they know what women think and feel and therefore they are women, too.

DisrespectfulAdult, No I don't claim to know how people with ASDs think or feel but I do think I can spot patterns of behaviour.

I need to have a look for it but I saw a study recently talking about significant Personality disorder overlap. Rates were high 80%s iirc.

@DisrespectfulAdultFemale well said.

@ThingyBob

A truly breathtaking level of ignorance.

As an autistic person I find your comments incredibly insulting.

But I’m not reporting them. I think it’s important that such ignorance and prejudice, which is sadly commonplace on MN, is left on display for reasonable people to see how some people view us.

People like you, who self appoint themselves as judge and jury over who they deem to be autistic, are HUGELY damaging to the autistic community.

You should be ashamed. But I know you won’t be.

Right, indignation aside, you'll notice I wrote that posters on those kinds of forums very often claim to be autistic. This might be self-diagnosis or it might be legitimately diagnosed.

I wasn’t addressing you. You have stated yourself that you know little about autism so what you say about it doesn’t matter or me.

@AutisticHedgehog and @DisrespectfulAdultFemale

I'm sorry that you find my comments insulting and I'm not trying to insult anyone but can you clarify what it is I've said that has upset you?

Ok I said that many TRAs show autistic traits but surely that is backed up by so many being open about their diagnosis?

I also said that I could understand why so many people on the spectrum are attracted to the trans cause, can you see that too?

And surely the evidence is undisputed that people with ASDs are over represented in the trans community?

I would genuinely be interested in your thoughts.

They're behaving that way because they are narcissistic, not autistic. I come from a long line of autistic people, and some of us have narcissistic traits and some of us don't. Just like any other group really.

A lot of the men currently identifying as trans are doing it as a sexual fetish. There is no correlation between that and autism.

The correlation between autism and trans has been made between teenage girls looking for a way out of rigid gender roles and a possible link between neuro diversity and ROGD.

It's entirely unconnected to men getting their kicks from transgressing women's boundaries by using the ladies toilets, particularly when they know they don't pass.

My 2p worth on this: I see the Autistic traits of some young gender questioning children being used by some activists and online presences to groom them. They’re using any rule based thinking (girls do x, I don’t do x, thus I am not a girl) as a strategy to amplify that thought and tell them ‘yes! You’re a boy! Boys DO do x’ . That is manipulative and that is callously abusive on the part of the groomer. I fear this is what’s behind at least part of the rise in young girls presenting to clinics.

In older TRAs - predominantly men, I don’t see it much in transmen, I see what seem to be more personality disorder traits rather than autistic traits. What I do see is claiming to be autistic as a get out in this cohort to excuse what is actually behaviour stemming from profound narcissism and entitlement.

I really dislike how ‘I’m autistic’ is abused as a get out, and I am sickened by how the traits of younger children are being used against them.

Disclaimer: armchair diagnosis, my opinion only, not autistic, have immediate family who are.