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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liberal feminists/sex work is work proponents....

106 replies

BertrandRussell · 12/01/2019 13:59

.....do you think the DWP should be able to sanction a person who refuses to earn money as a prostitute when applying for benefits? If not, why not?

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BertrandRussell · 15/01/2019 11:25

It’s surprising how many people have the Belle de Jour fantasy.......

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NothingOnTellyAgain · 15/01/2019 21:58

I think because the reality is too depressing and upsetting. And means something should be done...

Easier to pretend it's all fine.

Coyoacan · 16/01/2019 16:54

Unfortunately many men that use prostitutes and watch porn promote that idea not because they find the reality depressing but as a shield and justification for their behaviour.

But I find it particularly distressing when liberal feminists put forward the Belle de Jour argument.

Here in Mexico, where trafficking is a huge problem, our leading "feminist" academic not only claims that it is a good way to earn a living, but also calls women who don't agree with her frigid.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 16/01/2019 16:59

That's grotesque coyoacan

There's just so much wrong I wouldn't know where to start with that "feminist" stance / statement!

FlyingOink · 17/01/2019 00:34

This!

Liberal feminists/sex work is work proponents....
NonExistentFox · 17/01/2019 09:01

How many of you actually know any sex workers?

FlyingOink · 17/01/2019 10:51

How many of you actually know any sex workers?
I do, all former, none current. What's that got to do with anything?
I don't know any cannibals but I know cannibalism is wrong, no matter what Armin Meiwes might think.
Fallacious appeal to authority isn't going to work when there's a huge chunk of data supporting the assertion that sex work is dangerous and degrading. Outliers don't disprove the rule.

BertrandRussell · 17/01/2019 10:56

I don’t, as far aside know, know any sex workers now. But in a former life I knew a lot.

One of the good things, however, about being human is that you don’t actually have to have first hand experience of things to understand them and have an informed opinion about them. I don’t think I know anyone who has suffered FGM- but I know that the people who do it are wrong and it should be stopped.

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LangCleg · 17/01/2019 11:32

How many of you actually know any sex workers?

Quite a few. You?

R0wantrees · 17/01/2019 12:37

extract from current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3481763-Renee-Gerlich-By-the-numbers-The-oppression-of-women-and-girls-globally-join-the-dots

Prostitution

Prostitution is by far the deadliest situation a woman can be in. For women and girls in prostitution, the death rate is 40 times higher than the average. No group of women, regardless of career or life situation, has as high a mortality rate as prostitution.
Source: Kasja Ekis Ekman, “Being and Being Bought”, 2013

In 2003, a survey carried out among 800 prostituted people in 9 countries (Canada, Colombia, Germany, Mexico, South Africa, Germany, Thailand, Turkey, the USA, and Zambia) revealed that:
71 per cent had experienced physical assault while in prostitution
63 per cent had been raped while engaged in prostitution
89 per cent said they wanted to leave prostitution and said they would if they had the possibility
68 per cent met the criteria for a diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder
Source: Prostitution Research and Education

Up to 95 per cent of women in street prostitution have a problematic drug addiction.
Source: Kat Banyard, “Pimp State”, 2016

According to Wikipedia, there are between 40 and 42 million prostituted persons globally. Estimates put the percentage of women between 80% and 98%. 99% of punters are men." (continues)

R0wantrees · 17/01/2019 12:43

twitter.com/nordicmodelnow/status/1085435231727841280

Melissa Farley, 'Prostitution and the Invisibility of Harm'

"Abstract
The harm of prostitution is socially invisible, and it is also invisible in the law, in public health, and in psychology. This article addresses origins of this invisibility, how words in current usage promote the invisibility of prostitution's harm, and how public health perspectives and psychological theory tend to ignore the harm done by men to women in prostitution. Literature which documents the overwhelming physical and psychological harm to those in prostitution is summarized here. The interconnectedness of racism, colonialism, and child sexual assault with prostitution is discussed."

www.researchgate.net/publication/232850326_Prostitution_and_the_Invisibility_of_Harm

Liberal feminists/sex work is work proponents....
EJennings · 17/01/2019 12:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NonExistentFox · 17/01/2019 12:56

Quite a few. You?

Also quite a few, they all think it's work and they all support legalisation.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 17/01/2019 13:08

Also quite a few, they all think it's work and they all support legalisation

Super NonExistentFox, so answer the question - should people lose benfits if they reject a job interview for 'sex work'? what do your 'friends' think on that subject?

NonExistentFox · 17/01/2019 13:58

I haven't asked them but no, of course not. As Pachyderm1 says, DWP sanctions are a shitshow anyway.

Why are you putting "'friends'" in quotation marks?

BertrandRussell · 17/01/2019 14:03

If it’s work, it’s work, and all the appropriate legislation should be in place. Including health and safety, taxation, consumer rights.........

And a pimp should be able to advertise, and unemployed people should be obliged to go for interviews.

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BertrandRussell · 17/01/2019 14:05

Oh, and prostitution is legal in the UK.

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BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 17/01/2019 14:12

OK NonExistentFox, so should people claiming job seekers allowance be able to refuse all interviews without sanctions?

or just interviews for 'sex work'?

HelenaDove · 17/01/2019 14:16

I ended up in a sex chatline office after being on New Deal workfare in the early 2000s I had the choice of that or working in a soup factory for my JSA. i had already done a three month stint (a month in a charity shop and two months in my local councils office. ) i saw the chatline job advertized and went for it.

a. it was either that or workfare.

b. it was actually paying a wage. I did have a couple of retail jobs in the years following but my chatline employers treated me way better than those did.

Sex work may now actually be a real possibility for women with older partners over SPA after the news that was released on Monday night.

Coyoacan · 17/01/2019 14:16

Thanks R0wantrees for those resources.

HelenaDove · 17/01/2019 14:19

@EJennings i think ive sort of answered your question.

Beerflavourednipples · 17/01/2019 14:26

Girls and women are "there" for men to fuck anyway so why not get paid for it

THIS. This is why I can't get on board with the 'sex work is work' idea. Because at its very root is this idea and you cannot get away from that.

MargueritaPink · 17/01/2019 17:30

I haven't asked them but no, of course not. As Pachyderm1 says, DWP sanctions are a shitshow anyway

Why "of course not"? If it is work - and you and your friends think it is- then it is work.

It is irrelevant whether DWP sanctions are "a shitshow".

NonExistentFox · 17/01/2019 18:20

I can't put it better than BoglingToAswad did. Life isn't a one-definition-fits-all thing.

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