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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Academic Hoax on the penis as a social construct held "in high regard" by peer reivewers

43 replies

JeremyPacman · 11/01/2019 22:44

www.dailywire.com/news/16682/conceptual-penis-academic-hoax-exposes-absurdity-james-barrett

OP posts:
TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/01/2019 22:52

I'm torn.

On the one hand this is really funny

But on the other this argument is literally entailed by mainstream genderist claims that sex is a social construct and that makes it deadly serious and completely terrifying

teawamutu · 11/01/2019 22:54

Oh, brilliant stuff. To be fair, the extracts make a fair bit more sense than, eg, Sally Hines or quite a few of the articles on 'why woman can have dicks' I've read, so I can see how it happenedGrin

Bravo, the authors.

Ereshkigal · 11/01/2019 23:02

Agree Tallulah. It is funny, but it's pure trans theory. It could easily be true. This stuff is impossible to parody.

nauticant · 11/01/2019 23:31

The academic community need a B Ark plan. If they did pull it off I don't think they'd have to worry about the consequences.

StarsAndWater · 12/01/2019 16:39

That is both hilarious and really sad. How on earth could anyone read that nonsense and think it's genuine?

AspieAndProud · 12/01/2019 16:45

I remember the Sokol hoax and thinking, well that’s it for postmodernism. It can’t survive this kind of ridicule and exposure. But that was over 20 years ago and Pomo is still with us.

Sociologists of science tend to agree that we really only move onto a new paradigm when those holding on to the previous paradigm die off. Evidence just isn’t enough for most people.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/01/2019 08:07

How on earth could anyone read that nonsense and think it's genuine?

Because it reads very much like gender theory as written by a certain type of academic, eg: Judith Butler. I have quite traumatic memories of my attempt to read the incomprehensible nonsense that is Bodies That Matter - a book that was very nearly thrown in the bin because of her repeated used of 'sex' instead of sex.

borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 08:45

It’s wonderfully funny and utterly terrifying in equal measure. The bit about the “conceptual penis” causing climate change is genius.

ChattyLion · 13/01/2019 08:53

I’m not buying this. It seems to posit opponents to gender theory as ‘conservatives’ - both a lazy shorthand and inaccurate bullshit. This is often used an easy way to write off women’s concerns as invalid in left wing circles.

Lots of us - of many political backgrounds- object to the authoritarian way that a political belief or dogma is being forced on everyone else at the moment, with bad social or legal consequences for anyone rejecting it. That rejection of forced speech alone doesn’t make us ‘conservatives’.

I don’t think gender studies shouldn’t be taught just because I disagree with (what I know of) some of the current course content/apparent political hyper -individualism. It should be argued against where it is wrong and be illustrated clearly to have adverse consequences IRL where these consequences are being glossed over or are not apparent to theoreticians. Then they can pick a side.

These hoax authors say they came from a starting point that is often used to attack feminists. In their l quotes in this piece they don’t make any attempt to distinguish between eg Lib fem and Rad fem- by implication they think it’s that feminists in general that think maleness is bad Hmm:

’We assumed that if we were merely clear in our moral implications that maleness is intrinsically bad and that the penis is somehow at the root of it, we could get the paper published in a respectable journal’.

So basically it looks to me the hoax authors are against both what they see as feminism and gender studies as a discipline which to me doesn’t show any kind of piercing new intellectual vision on this - rather a tired and misogynistic and academically restrictive vision instead.

angelwithalariat · 13/01/2019 09:53

This is Peter Boghossian, who has just been threatened with the sack for saying this stuff. Quite heavyweight support for him on free speech grounds - Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett.

The whole story has been referred to as Sokal squared and is well worth a Google.

MargueritaPink · 13/01/2019 11:20

Re Judith Butler- this made me laugh.

How did ever come to be taken seriously?.

www.denisdutton.com/bad_writing.htm

The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power

MargueritaPink · 13/01/2019 12:08

How on earth could anyone read that nonsense and think it's genuine?

Because it reads very much like gender theory as written by a certain type of academic, eg: Judith Butler

There were chunks which to me read very much like stuff I've read on here. Their "conceptual penis" sounds very much like the way disembodied "penis" gets used on here. Isn't their "conceptual penis" the same as what rad fems would call "the patriarchy"

The comment about manspeading isn't a million miles from the way I've seen it described on here as a violation and appropriation of personal space. I'm sure I've seen posts on here that weren't a million miles from what they said on climate change.

TimeLady · 13/01/2019 12:30

Rod Liddle in today's Sunday Times

"Hoaxer’s words fall on leftist ears"

The American philosopher Peter Boghossian is about to be sacked by his university for having duped various social science academic publications into accepting a series of hilarious spoof papers full of right-on, woke, made-up leftist bilge.

Perhaps his crowning moment was a dissertation on something called choice feminism, which was simply an entire chapter of Hitler’s arguably controversial memoir Mein Kampf, with a few buzzwords replaced here and there. But most of the stuff he made up was cheerfully given a berth by the dim-witted “experts” who run these fatuous publications. Including “The conceptual penis as a social construct” (which was, as Boghossian attests, 3,000 words of imbecilic drivel).

It’s no surprise, then, that Portland State University wants him out, as Boghossian’s hobby subjects its supposedly rigorous academic standards to side-splitting ridicule. And the means it has for getting him out are exquisitely Kafkaesque. Boghossian did not inform the publications’ editors that he was testing them by submitting spoof papers, so he contravened the academic code by using, effectively, involuntary guinea pigs to prove his thesis. Whoever dreamt that objection up should be in a Joseph Heller novel.

So it looks as though Boghossian’s for the chop, but those journals will go on flourishing. This week’s real academic papers include: “Lactation support and the LGBTQI community”; “‘You’re a woman, a convenience, a cat, a poof, a thing, an idiot’: Transgender women negotiating sexual experiences in men’s prisons in Australia”; and “The importance of disclosure: lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender/transsexual, queer/questioning, and intersex individuals and the cancer continuum”.

angelwithalariat · 13/01/2019 16:28

Rod Liddle is such a massive bellend that I would dearly love to be able to use him as a touchstone and just support anything he hates.

EJennings · 13/01/2019 16:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EJennings · 13/01/2019 16:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Racecardriver · 13/01/2019 16:58

This is the gender theory’s Marcel Duchamp’s Foutain. It says a lot about the slipping standards in academia and intelligentsia to be quite frank. Soon some idiot will come along claiming that anything can be a penis.

TimeLady · 13/01/2019 17:22

Rod Liddle is such a massive bellend that I would dearly love to be able to use him as a touchstone and just support anything he hates.

But he's not wrong on this, is he?

Funkyfunkybeat12 · 13/01/2019 18:30

Agree with the person who said that these people attack feminism and women’s studies too. Basically anything that does not follow the mainstream. I wouldn’t call myself a huge fan of Butler but nor is everything she says nonsense.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/01/2019 19:26

I wouldn’t call myself a huge fan of Butler but nor is everything she says nonsense.

She may have some valid philosophical points, but when she presumes to pontificate about other disciplines then, yes, what she says is nonsense. Uninformed and verbose nonsense at that.

angelwithalariat · 13/01/2019 19:50

funky - genuinely - point me at the not nonsense. I will be grateful!

TimeLady - no, he's not, and I need to give this some thought.

Chatty - I'm still thinking about what you've said there.

Funkyfunkybeat12 · 13/01/2019 20:42

angel I don’t necessarily mean in that quote. But if I wanted to, I could rubbish all number of philosophical viewpoints as total rubbish by focusing on one sentence. And I do agree with Butler that gendered behaviour is not a natural thing, but a socially constructed form of power. I don’t agree with her that sex is completely socially constructed though, but it must also be remembered that when she was writing this stuff, we weren’t living in the society we are now, so I don’t think there was any sinister intent behind it. Also, I can see what she means that it is often hard to untangle the distinction between social construct and material reality and that language does inform how we think about so-called material realities.

Funkyfunkybeat12 · 13/01/2019 20:51

All I am saying is that if you join in the chants that gender theory shouldn’t be taught and should be abolished, you will soon find that they come for feminism too. Using their logic and rationality, they can surely discredit things like gender pay gaps, mental loads, and rape culture. We are after all human beings with free will and if women choose to take career breaks and do the child care, that presumably demonstrates a natural propensity towards that kinds of work. In fact, you have right-wing profs like Jordan Peterson totally debunking feminism in all its forms. In fact, Peterson argues, feminism leads to greater inequality between the sexes.

I don’t think this guy should lose his job. I believe strongly in the freedom to hold and express beliefs and there are many aspects of the research that I agree with in terms of it raising flaws in the process. But what I will not do is call for a whole discipline to be scrapped because I know that those behind that would ideally want to scrap most of humanities and social sciences- not just gender studies.

ChattyLion · 13/01/2019 21:11

In Hungary, gender studies departments are being shut down (and whole universities are being defunded) by the government and a whole university has left the country. It’s extremely frightening.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3457603-gender-study-ban

AspieAndProud · 13/01/2019 21:15

All I am saying is that if you join in the chants that gender theory shouldn’t be taught and should be abolished, you will soon find that they come for feminism too.

Not where feminism can make clear, testable claims, and in plain English.

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