Another day, another "She likes rough sex" defence

[QuentinWinters]

This case sounds absolutely horrific

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/10/bristol-grime-artist-solo-45-andy-anokye-on-trial-for-22-rapes

He is pleading not guilty, I'm guessing his defence is going to be that these 4 women really loved being waterboarded, sprayed with bleach and threatened with shooting.

I've just spotted this:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6603279/Privileged-Edinburgh-University-student-jailed-sex-attack-teenager.html

Not sure why he's crying after such a minimal sentence but at least the jury and judge didn't accept his 'she asked for it' defence.

I wonder if gay men use them when hey go on a Grinder date? I will ask around...

Yes - well, I know two that do, anyway

Men know what men are capable of

It's horrific. The men who do this see women as objects for their pleasure. Just sending them to prison will never be enough to change that mindset.

I literally can’t write what I hope happens to that man and all the other ‘she consented your honour’ perpetrators.

Wtf is with the bleach? That other recent horrific case involved bleach too. (Fuck I hate that I typed that sentence)

It's another layer of disturbing.

This is misogynistic terrorism.

This is absolutely horrific.

I noticed that the fact that women returned to him after the alleged rape/assault was used as sign that this was all consensual. Surely this is very normal part of domestic violence/intimate partner violence patterns - that women don't all run away and end all contact after an assault.

Huge plaudits to local Bristol Live reporter for reporting on this sensitively and in detail - often these cases just have a paragraph or two.

This particular line from the defence has infuriated me
"She also urged jurors to consider inconsistencies in the crown’s case - asking if the recordings were of rape why would anyone consent to be in them?"

Well, if the man raped you why would he ever bother to get your consent to film it as well. It's not like he would have got a filming release form signed is it...

Yes crafty that bit bothered me too.

And the usual setup of man prosecuting, woman defending, because then the jury will think that some women think this behaviour is normal.

I feel so, so sorry for the victims, having to have the jury shown intimate (wrong word, I know) videos of them being violently raped. I know they cleared out the gallery for it, but still.

Does anyone know what is happening with this trial? Seems to have gone quiet.

Delayed because the defendant is ill, apparently

Convenient.

Shouldn't say this because it is totally so un PC, but the whole culture of that and similar music, the people who play it, the people who listen to it, is pure misogyny, violence and drugs.
This isn't easy to listen to but explains it.
You only have to listen to the terms that the proponents of this so called "music" use to describe women.

When I go out with my daughter she has a playlist on her ipod. It has all sorts of music on it, for me, my granddaughter and my daughter. Juxtaposed, the other day, 'She Used to Be My Girl' about how wonderful his ex is, and 'She's Such a Fucking Ho'. No wonder young kids these days think sex should be violent. And that is just one of the songs, daughter calls them Mums Feminist Anthems, in a post ironic sort of way, because she knows they make me flippin fumin

Shouldn't say this because it is totally so un PC, but the whole culture of that and similar music

Well, indeed. This is something that annoys me too. It's possible of course to narrow down analysis of "men do bad things to women", we can be more specific and admit that certain cultures are much worse than "white" western culture in their treatment of women. Even beyond that general and obvious fact, we can see this music is blatantly deeply misogynistic. Raise it though and you are a racist and "but white men rape too" so there is no point in directly responding to it. Hence Gillette still show an advert showing a middle aged white guy making inappropriate sexual gestures towards a young black woman. No suggestion that there is any specific problem with any other culture, because that's racist. It infuriates me. The fact that young women even have to listen to this stuff is an outrage.

I noticed that the fact that women returned to him after the alleged rape/assault was used as sign that this was all consensual.

This is the cornerstone of all these defences though. Men know what other men are like, as a PP observed. Heterosexual men would never make themselves vulnerable to another man the way heterosexual women do, or gay men. I think that is the root of a lot of misogyny. It's a weakness.

"we can be more specific and admit that certain cultures are much worse than "white" western culture in their treatment of women."

In public you are no longer allowed to point that out, and if you speak up then there will always be someone playing "racist" trump card.
If you mention knife crime in London, there is something you must not mention in public - ethnicity - both of victims and of perpetrators.
I was going to Victoria station back in 2010 when I came across the aftermath of this. All the perpetrators were from one ethnic group, the victim from another.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15310015

With regard to this subject and misogyny, there are as you say certain ethnic groups/cultures where violence against women is rife. I believe that Sarah Champion the Labour MP was treated in a disgusting manner, both by her own party and by some UK media, for commenting on the Rotherham child abuse/grooming scandal.
This article just shows the depths to which the Independent sunk.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/sarah-champion-the-sun-muslim-problem-should-have-known-better-newcastle-rotherham-rochdale-a7897801.html

It's possible of course to narrow down analysis of "men do bad things to women", we can be more specific and admit that certain cultures are much worse than "white" western culture in their treatment of women

I don't think that's correct. "White Western" cultures may sometimes abuse women in a different way (and often, in exactly the same way), but I don't think that necessarily means that other cultures are all "worse".

"Raise it and you are a racist and "but white men rape too"

Well, yeah, they do. It's prolific in the West. Where do Gillette sell most of their razors? Probably "the West"?

Heterosexual men would never make themselves vulnerable to another man the way heterosexual women do

I don't know what you mean by this. Is it not more that (hetrosexual, or not) women are vulnerable/at risk from men in a way that men who are behaving in the exact same way are not?

"but I don't think that necessarily means that other cultures are all "worse"."

I read it as "certain cultures are much worse", which is true, particularly if you look at women's rights in parts of Asia and Africa, where in certain countries FGM is rife, girls are not allowed to go to school, women are not allowed to work, religion (again a large part of culture) dictates how a woman behaves, what she wears, how she will be punished. Of course, the religions are all put in place by men, the rules enforced by men.

This is from an Islamic forum

"Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the words of Allaah. Your right over them is that they should not allow anyone to sit on your furniture whom you dislike; if they do that then hit them but not in a harsh manner."

"If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her."

islamqa.info/en/answers/41199/hitting-ones-wife

but I don't think that necessarily means that other cultures are all "worse".

Really ?? Do you think all cultures are pretty much on a par as to their attitudes towards women ? If so I profoundly disagree with you.

This is classic whataboutery. There is no point in us giving any attention to the culture these people belong to, because whites are just as bad, apparently. Despite the obvious evidence that white western societies are the best ones for women, the loathing of our culture and fear of being branded a racist, forbids some people admitting there might be a more specific problem.

I don't know what you mean by this. Is it not more that (hetrosexual, or not) women are vulnerable/at risk from men in a way that men who are behaving in the exact same way are not?

Men do not behave in the "exact same way" at all. Heterosexual men are not naked and intimate with other men, so they are not vulnerable in the same way.

"There is no point in us giving any attention to the culture these people belong to, because whites are just as bad, apparently. Despite the obvious evidence that white western societies are the best ones for women, the loathing of our culture and fear of being branded a racist, forbids some people admitting there might be a more specific problem."

Exactly, in the days following the Manchester Arena terrorist attack, there were articles in well known newspapers highlighting Islamophobia and the rise of far right extremism. When the various abuse cases involving thousands of young, white girls in Rochdale, Newcastle, Telford, Rotherham started to surface and the ethnicity of the perpetrators became known, certain news sources would say "but the majority of sex offenders are white".
In the Newcastle case, one of the offenders said "white women are good only for people like me to use as trash"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/white-women-are-good-only-for-people-like-me-to-use-as-trash-jc7bvcjcb

Men do not behave in the "exact same way" at all. Heterosexual men are not naked and intimate with other men, so they are not vulnerable in the same way.

But women only get naked and intimate with sexual partners. Saying that women are 'putting themselves at risk with that behaviour' is a quite victim-blamey. Men are naked around other men in changing rooms and showers, and yet nothing happens to them. They aren't at risk. They go out and get drunk and chat to other men, and nothing happens, but when women do it they're at risk.

His defence lawyer is a woman.
A woman who has previously defended Gary Glitter
The mind boggles

It's not just a little victim "blamey", it's entirely blaming the women, that's the point. I don't believe there is any reason to believe these women did not want to have sex with the accused, they did not know what was going to happen. That is the weakness, heterosexual men may shower with other men but they don't get naked and desire to be touched by them, they are not vulnerable in the same way, they don't have this inherent weakness.

The man is a monster and at the same time a man whom the victims wanted to perform the most intimate of acts with. An evil and depraved lunatic, but someone the victims willingly made themselves vulnerable to. That's the basic defence that is always pulled out. The jury have to believe he was both.