How would you respond to a teacher making NAMALT commentary?

[BeholdTheNewTablecloth]

Evening all

First off, I am not in the UK and secondly, I am hearing this from my 16 year old second hand.
They were reading an article in class about One year after me too, has much changed?
The female teacher took the stance that the me too movement had gone too far, did not represent professions as a whole and that there were fewer accusations from women in politics for example because those women had not fucked their way to the top then went on to say that the me too movement excluded male victims and that most of all....NAMALT.
I asked DD if it was a tactic to create debate/deliberately controversial stance to provoke reaction (like Piers Morgan Katie Hopkins style trolling). She says not and that the teacher has two sons, is not in her opinion much of a feminist and that she delights in considering herself to be someone who goes against the wave of public opinion/independent thinker and that she seemed to genuinely hold the opinion that me too has become a misandrist movement.
My daughter said to her that it was not a case of All men are... but was calling out the men who were and that DD thought most of the allegations made were probably true borne out by statistics.
Her friend made the point that there are more female victims than male victims hence the discrepancy between numbers coming forward.
Teacher said she did not personally believe that and that men just do not come forward with their experiences for fear of not being believed (oh the irony) or embarrassment because in our society men would be seen as being weak if they were victims of assault by a woman.

I have a son myself, believe in enthusiastic consent being taught and have always said whilst NAMALT sadly QALOMALT (to which another poster added TMMALT which I think sums it up).
I admit to having issues with this teacher anyway (she gave out an article about increasing numbers of primary school children having inadequate grammar which she enthusiastically agreed with...to her class of 24 many of whom with a migrant background (DD is one of several with the main language as a second language, others are bi or trilingual and/or second generation) so I am aware that she has robust opinions on issues.

The school system is based on continuous assessment although oral marks are subjective. Daughter has debated with teacher before on veganism and felt she might have marked her card for having a different viewpoint (Daughter was arguing pro vegan, teacher against). There is little to be gained from me speaking with the teacher as she is entitled to her own opinions, holds the power with which she can pass/fail my child and quite frankly she will criticize my command of the language.

Daughter could in theory take in statistics about male on female violence with her next lesson. She could also take in the numerous articles on harassment in other domains that are not so easily dismissed by the teacher (although my point stands that the teacher believing women in the entertainment industry were not victims irks me given that with Pervy Wankstain there were more than 100 women all saying the same thing/describing the same M.O - the teacher also openly criticized those she said kept silent).
DD could also take in the numerous cases where a man has complained about harassment (Terry Crews, Anthony Edwards, the 15 allegations against Kevin Spacey etc)
but should she, given the fact that the teacher
a) might see it as a direct attack on teacher's views she chose to share with the class
b) the power dynamic is not balanced
c) she hasn't been asked to
d) it is unlikely that the teacher will change her teaching or viewpoint

Does she leave it? Am I overreacting/judging the teacher unfairly?

Meh. Germaine Greer has the same opinion as this teacher btw. Your daughter will encounter people like this all her life, she would be best advised not to get into an argument about it. There is no way that this women is going to accept your position that quite a lot of men horrible.

QALOMALT ? TMMALT ??

It's good I think that your kid is being exposed to different (wrong) opinions. However I do think your daughter and her friend were right to challenge them and you should definitely be on guard for any unfair treatment from this teacher. I would recommend that you arm her with as many resources and statistics as possible.

Also, point out to her that MeToo can't be anything but good for men who act properly. It should help more men who have been assaulted to come out, just as it has helped women. Men who aren't assaulting anyone have nothing to worry about except at the hands of criminal liars, and there are laws in place to protect anyone in that situation which are being used to prosecute people.

Now I will say one thing in "defense" of her. If men are doing things sexually with women that are not illegal but that they wouldn't want others to know about, then MeToo has now made it more likely that this will be discussed publicly instead of buried down the shameful memory hole. Like Aziz Ansari type shit. But there's an easy solution to that. Don't do Aziz Ansari type shit!

If TMMALT means too many men are like that, then I'm borrowing it!

Sorry, Not all Men are like that but Quite a Lot of men are like that and Too Many Men are like that....I just found it hard to fathom that a teacher would dismiss the me too movement to casting couch whingeing. But I had not read Germaine Greer's comments til elon just alerted me to them. Her book On Rape will be something else I will have to agree to disagree on.

I saw a story the other day about a Pakistani in Britain who had committed a sexual assault; but I thought NAPiBALT. I was then bashed on the head by Nick Griffin who told me QALOPiBALT and TMPiBALT, and if all Pakistanis were deported this wouldn't happen again.

I saw a story the other day about a man who had committed a sexual assault; but I thought NAMALT. I was then bashed on the head by some Mumsnetters who told me QALOMALT and TMMALT.

While Nick Griffin had a practical (albeit massively racist and utterly wrong) solution, the Mumsnetters just thought all men should sit in a permanent, even lifelong, stew of suspicion where they were guilty until conclusively proven innocent, but even then were in limbo.

None of that means any men should be let into women's-only spaces and I hope that was not what the teacher was teaching; it doesn't mean women should be unaware of male violence and I hope that was not what the teacher was teaching.

If the teacher distributed sheets stating facts, but facts you are uncomfortable with, that isn't grounds for complaint, however much it offends your sensibilities.

Its a myth that if you just come up with the perfect argument, you can change someone's POV, or 'win'. Many people are just using an argument to be nasty, let them get on with it.

Your DD seems to have her head screwed on. Teach her to pick her battles and conserve her energy.

If it was the vegetative state thread drop I was probably one who said QALOMALT having read some of the bullshit on reddit threads written by quite a lot of men: not all, not most but quite a few. Have not returned to that thread subsequently so perhaps there has been subsequent commentary but one point raised was not that all men were guilty until proven innocent - rather that men ought to be calling out other men on toxic masculinity/male violence as opposed to staying silent. That's addressed quite well in this article.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/04/domestic-violence-abuse-patrick-stewart-david-challen-hart-brothers
The teacher was not teaching about male violence, she was expressing an opinion about it - her right to do so but I am pretty sure that in the UK if I expressed the opinion that the majority of actresses screwed their way to the top, the headteacher would be having a quiet word, especially if I doubled down on that by saying female politicians had more intelligence than actresses who weren't the real victims compared with men.
The article itself was from October - it started off asking whether things had changed in light of Ariana Grande being felt up at Aretha Franklin's funeral, went on to sum up the me too events from the previous year, stated that 11 000 sexual assaults took place in Germany 2017, majority female and 1 in 4 German women had suffered sexual harassment at work, discussed director Dieter Wedel but stated that there had been no claims of harassment in German political or business arenas and then quoted a philosopher Svenja Flaßpöhler as saying women often support power structures by their passivity and there was misandry in the me too debate. Finally professor Monika Schröttle said me too had not made men and women's relationships uncertain (bad translation sorry) but that both sexes usually know when they are crossing boundaries.

So the teacher has expressed her opinions on that article (Dieter Wedel was a dressing gown in hotel bloke too) without backing them up with facts/stats about female violence or discussing political/business harassment in other countries. It is probably fair to say that I am being judgy... but sensibilities aside, in the classroom I would have been analysing said article asking the pupils for their reactions to it rather than imposing my own.

What subject is this teacher teaching your DD? Presumably something where these debates are relevant, and not Maths or something.

I wouldn't raise anything with the teacher or school, and use it as an example for your DD of when you have to put up with people you'd rather avoid for the sake of a longer term goal.

She is a teacher of German (in Germany) so the equivalent of an English language teacher in the UK.
They do a lot of reading of news events, letters in response to articles, text analysis, commentaries, rhetoric and debate work. Absolutely no problem with this, think it aids critical thinking....and if the teacher was simply explaining the arguments in the text or playing devil's advocate I would understand - it's only when someone in a position of authority states their opinion as fact or the correct/authorized standpoint, then I have problems with it as children will feel obliged to regurgitate it when it is subjective and in this case not wholly valid (clearly there is a point to be made about men not reporting and having to live up to a macho stereotype and that men can be subject to dv/sexual assault too from both sexes) but to use under reporting as the only explanation as to why there are currently more female than male victims minimizes the impact of sexual violence on women perpetrated by men.

Mumsnetters just thought all men should sit in a permanent, even lifelong, stew of suspicion where they were guilty until conclusively proven innocent

I am not sure what you’re referring to precisely but it seems most around here want decent men to acknowledge the obvious fact that TMMALT and then take action and to speak out with other decent men in order to try to change the behavior of those “too many”.

Hearsay against hearsay, so must be fact

If you do actually care about women’s rights then reread your orignail post and see how it does damage, you make it sound like a joke. If you want to help walk away and don’t comment again

it's only when someone in a position of authority states their opinion as fact or the correct/authorized standpoint

It was a debate/critical thinking lesson, in which everyone is entitled to their opinion, the teacher included. You seem to imply that your DD is worried she will get lower marks for debating a different opinion to the teacher, but his is not how mark schemes work. Marks are given for the way you present your argument, irrespective of your personal opinion either way. Children stating the teachers opinion as fact will gain nothing, and indeed will have missed the whole point about critical thinking wrt current popular media reporting. If the teacher simply agreed with the students on everything, there would not be much robust debate in the class, would there? She is modeling techniques and engaging the students in putting forward opposing arguments for opposing viewpoints. Ie teaching the lesson.

I don't understand why you feel you/your DD need to challenge her with extra statistics after the lesson. Good for your dd in terms of evidence gathering, but the lesson has moved on.

I think the cultural context (Germany) is important here. I've heard too many Germans of both sexes excuse male violence/bad behaviour with "but women sexually assault, too ..." It's probably pointless to take this further with the teacher.

The simple fact that well over 90% of sexual violence/assault/rape is committed by men is not common public knowledge in Germany, as far as I can tell. If you mention it in polite society, an awkward moment ensues, and the topic is swiftly changed. Even if you are in the company of so-called feminists.

It simple, though, isn't it: if it's clear that one group is overwhelmingly responsible for a social problem, you have to think constructively about how to target that group to solve the problem, right?

then went on to say that the me too movement excluded male victims and that most of all....NAMALT.

Absolutely nothing to stop a man from setting up a movement to support male victims of sexual assault. The idea that men are prevented from doing this by women is ridiculous.

Teacher said she did not personally believe that and that men just do not come forward with their experiences for fear of not being believed (oh the irony) or embarrassment because in our society men would be seen as being weak if they were victims of assault by a woman.

Or could it be that men have less risk of being attacked by a a woman because men are on average 6 inches taller and a couple of stone heavier? So difficult to tell...

@justagirl As someone who spent time collating the list of Pervy Wankstain complainants I will call him that as the twunt doesn't deserve owt else - as for he said, she said, he had over 100 women saying the same thing. As for my own hearsay, I trust my daughter's account - she only told me about it as I used to teach in the UK and she often tells me how things are different here and although product is correct in what they are saying wrt debate work I can tell you that in 15 years of secondary education no teacher would use the phrase fuck their way to the top - we cannot swear at all in the classroom and few would be so sexist. As to the NAMALT and my changing of it, it is such a trite phrase trotted out time and time again when many of us are mothers to sons, married to husbands, sisters of brothers and we know not all men... but YesAllWomen
As you did not say much in your post apart from alleging damage without an explanation and then trying to silence me I suggest you take your own advice.

DrHeidi that's an interesting observation especially in light of Cologne and the advent of m/w/d. there does not appear to be much pushback.

Indeed director and I knew of the Westminster lists - teacher was referring to German politics (along the line of Angie Merkel doesn't get harassed as she is more intelligent than to go meet in hotel rooms).