Maria Miller called me a fake feminist over gender self-ID. Now she says I was right all along

[welshgendercrit]

Helen Lewis having a justifiable rant in the New Statesman about Maria Miller's shift in stance towards self-ID.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2019/01/maria-miller-called-me-fake-feminist-over-gender-self-id-now-she-says-i

That a fine, strong piece from Helen Lewis. Her anger is clear and explicit after 2 years - on the same scale, given that it's 14 years, I'd think that Julie Bindel must be nigh on incandescent.

Julie Bindel - I really don't know how she does it. Talk about grace under pressure. She is a legend.

So Helen Lewis doesn't believe in self id but believes in single sex services and also that TWAW and TMAM. So by implication you don't need self id to access women only services? This logic is not like our Earth logic.

Talk about grace under pressure. She is a legend.

She is. Grace, self control, intelligence, courage and right all along.

I’ve had two tedious years of being abused online as a transphobe and a “TERF” or “trans-exclusionary radical feminist” – despite my belief that trans women are women, and trans men are men – because I have expressed concerns about self-ID

Oh...
I was agreeing with her up to this.

Believing TWAW does not give you any looser a leash. They will keep on pulling.

Will I get deleted if I point out the obvious to absolutely everyone flaw in the logic expressed in the quote above?

Well.....I think if one believes that womanhood is about how someone is perceived and treated by others, and sex abd gender are separate, there is a valid argument that trans women are women. But a separate class of male women who need to be separate from female women in certain circumstances.
It seems overly complicated to me but each to their own.

“Well.....I think if one believes that womanhood is about how someone is perceived and treated by others, and sex abd gender are separate, there is a valid argument that trans women are women. But a separate class of male women who need to be separate from female women in certain circumstances.”

I can’t see how that makes any sense at all? Trans women don’t want special trans only spaces (I’ve never heard them ask for this anyway) and they believe they are actually women. Surely they are either right about that or they are not?

Trans women even believe they are lesbians 😟😧

*Talk about grace under pressure. She is a legend.

She is. Grace, self control, intelligence, courage and right all along.*. Absolutely this!

I’ve had two tedious years of being abused online as a transphobe and a “TERF” or “trans-exclusionary radical feminist” – despite my belief that trans women are women, and trans men are men – because I have expressed concerns about self-ID

I stopped reading here too. There’s no logic here whatsoever. Pity, as up to that point it all seemed rational.

I find that lot of gender critical women in the public eye trry to sit safely on the fence by saying TWAW. They don't believe it, they just don't want the abuse that comes from opposing the TRA ideology.

I like Helen though. We should be supporting every woman that stands up against this rubbish.

Agreed Melroses - its either 100% agreement with their ideology or you are the enemy.

“I stopped reading here too. There’s no logic here whatsoever. Pity, as up to that point it all seemed rational.”

I noticed that about her when I saw her interview Jordan Peterson. She seemed logically inconsistent there too.

From the article: “When asked about the potential conflict of rights between trans and non-trans women in July 2017, Miller told Janice Turner: “But 50 years ago, maybe ten years ago, people felt very uncomfortable about gay people showing their relationships in public but life has moved on.” That was the line: only a bigot would not back her report.”

I think that’s a very strange response from someone who you would expect to be intelligent like a government minister, because I see very little equivalence in terms of what the old gay rights movement wanted and what the modern trans rights movement are asking for.

As far as I understand it the old gays rights movement asked for gay people to have the same legal rights as everyone else which barely affected anyone in society other than themselves. They weren’t asking that the government require anyone else in society to give up anything or do anything differently as far as I remember. At least not on any large scale.

But as far as I understand it what the trans rights movement are asking for is that society be changed so that gender segregated spaces and the like are opened to anyone who says they are of that gender which affects everyone who doesn’t believe that simply identifying as a gender makes you that gender. Either that or they want the rules and current norms around gender abolished all together so there are no spaces segregated by sex and no all women’s short lists and the like but again that affects everyone? Surely a change like that cannot be granted in a democracy without the government first checking that the public are by enlarge onboard or at least OKwith it, and I’m really not sure they are. They might be, but I’m not sure they are.

What am I missing here? There has got to be more to it than just this surely? We are talking about a response from a government minister here, not the counter point raised in the sixth form debating society.

Oh I do like Helen Lewis. She's properly smart. I fundamentally disagree with her on TWAW but at least she supplies some reasoning, even if accepts gender in a way I'm very unhappy with.

she always has an interesting way of looking at thing. thank's for posting OP