Not enough toilets in theatres. For women

[RedToothBrush]

Hands up. Who is remotely surprised by this...?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46735513
Women's toilets an issue for West End theatres

A survey of West End theatres has found there is an average of just one toilet for every 38 female audience members.

The research by The Stage calculated that women would need a 57-minute interval to all visit the bathroom. The average interval is 20 minutes.

The Old Vic had the fewest with one toilet for every 56 women.

Many theatres struggle to increase the number of toilets due to their buildings having listed status and the Old Vic is a Grade II-listed building.

The theatre recently launched a £100,000 public fundraising campaign to improve the toilets and access to the theatre featuring Glenda Jackson and Joanna Lumley.

The works will more than double the number of female loos. They have so far raised £52,482.

Coconutwheel I agree with you. There is no incentive for the situation to change. I refuse to believe that planners and architects the length and breadth of the country are unaware that public sanitation provision for women is inadequate. They just don't care. It's become an accepted situation, one of those things where "that's just how it is".

I moderate my drinking when going to the theatre, so that I don’t need to go to the toilet during the interval/after the performance. I suspect I’m not alone.

So here’s the thing, I was actually at a matinee this afternoon and didn’t have a drink before the performance or during the interval - because of the toilet issue - and nor did any of the other 3 females in our party.

At theatre prices, Lets say each round of drink brings in a profit of around £10. If the facilities were better, we would potentially bought 2 rounds.

Toilet economics. Install more ladies loos = sell more drink.

Yes I'm sure that's true. I certainly know people who won't drink for that reason. Thing is, it's not "just" about hanging on for 45 minutes (which admittedly was beyond me in the weeks after my gynae op) - it's the amount of time that you're away from home. Most people don't live next door to a theatre, most people will already have travelled and will travel back again afterwards. And I realise it's less of an issue if you're not rushing to get back in for the second half, but actually even once the performance has ended is it too much to ask that we can access sanitation facilities in a timely manner in a venue that we have paid a considerable sum of money to have the use of?

Strangely someone shared an article with DH today from a while back about a campaign for nappy change in the gents.

metro.co.uk/2018/10/09/dads-campaign-for-baby-changing-tables-in-mens-toilets-8020937/
#Squatforchange

Why is this not more popular if we are all about busting gender?

People going to the loo at the theatre want to be in and out as quickly as possible and there will be a large number of people around.

People may want to be in and out as quickly as possible, but that doesn't mean they can. What women (and men) need to do in the loo doesn't change depending on where the loo is.

There are situations where facilities need to be segregated but I don't see the need in a situation like a theatre.

Theatres aren't special. The same reasons for sex-segregated loos apply in a theatre as they do in any other public facility. Women don't stop dealing with periods just because they are at the theatre. Or any of the hundred other issues women need to deal with in loos that mean they'd rather not be next to stranger men.

And as for "only half the women will use the toilet so why say how long it would take them all to go" - I usually also just hold it in when at the theatre... Because I can't be fucked standing in a 20 minute queue. The people queuing in theatres are generally the people who don't have a choice. Sometimes, I need to pee so much I wouldn't be able to stand in a 20 minute queue without wetting myself, so I'm best sitting where I can hold it in. It would be nice if women weren't expected to put up with that sort of discomfort and we were able to use the loo easily when we want to, like men are.

And the Glasgow theatre solution isn't an option anyway. There isn't enough space in these old theatres for lots of individual unisex separate rooms.

^^ that was to Margarita, sorry

I honestly don't see how unisex cubicles would solve anything anyway. Having separate urinals for men means that half of the audience takes up a smaller amount of space than if all of the audience were accommodated in cubicles, surely?

Women don't stop dealing with periods just because they are at the theatre

What prevents dealing with a period in the set up like the Glasgow Theatre Royal? Mirror, sanitary bin, sink and dryer in a fully enclosed room.

And yes sonic I completely agree that there are likely many women sitting in states of varying discomfort due to this, so that the number of people accessing facilities - when to do so makes for further discomfort due to delays caused by inadequate provision - is not a full picture of the level of facilities that are actually required, especially taking into account Ali1ce's excellent point about other self regulating behaviour that women engage in in order to avoid the consequences of inadequate provision.

What prevents dealing with a period in the set up like the Glasgow Theatre Royal? Mirror, sanitary bin, sink and dryer in a fully enclosed room.

What prevents it is that there isn't enough space in these old theatres for the provision of dozens of little rooms with loos, sinks and dryers within. So that's not a workable solution to this problem.

It also isn't the most efficient setup, space, cost or time wise.

What prevents dealing with a period in the set up like the Glasgow Theatre Royal? Mirror, sanitary bin, sink and dryer in a fully enclosed room

Errrr space. They take up more room than men toilets or women's toilets.

Anyone else do the mad dash for toilet before everyone else gets there, or the tactical go when you get there before the show starts and hope you don't need to go again (and yes deliberately choose not to have a drink cos of the logistics of have drink need to piss but you have to add in queuing time, so you risk missing the show or nearly wetting yourself.) Not to mention that I have a considerably smaller bladder than my husband so he needs to use his hose less anyway.

Its a learned skill and art form, that I'm sure men have no comprehension of whatsoever.

Just heard something about it on the radio. Great campaign but nobody pointed out that sex protected spaces are being eroded so it may become a non issue. Not that it's ideal. Refreshing to hear from people who don't want to be making others feel uncomfortable and have considered this.

Also, I've always found changing tables parents and baby rooms too high to be easily usuable and I'm not a short woman 🤔

Marguerita I honestly don't understand why you are constantly banging on about unisex toilets on a thread about inadequate sanitation provision for women, which is an issue that affects only women and has nothing to do with men.

I also don't understand why, Marguerita, you feel entitled to police how women feel in regard to being next to a man when they are half naked (because let's be clear this is why we need cubicles) and either urinating/defecating/dealing with menstruation.

I remembered seeing an advert for this recently, and thought it a very good idea. There can never be enough loos in my opinion!

www.mightyape.co.nz/product/kiwi-as-toilets/28470003?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3v27rs7Q3wIVCa6WCh0M9gVLEAQYAiABEgJ1D_D_BwE

I can recall my family owned "The Good Loo Guide" back in the 1970s. And there was one entry talking about one of the theatres where it said something about how it was discovered during construction that the architect had forgotten to include ladies' toilets. And so some space was taken out of the box office to deal with the lack, "Thus resulting in the small size of both of these important offices".

I see someone else has already mentioned Broadway. We were there a few weeks ago all of the cubicles had numbers on the doors and a lady stood directing people to them. The queue moved unbelievably quickly, I couldn't believe it

The people queuing in theatres are generally the people who don't have a choice. Sometimes, I need to pee so much I wouldn't be able to stand in a 20 minute queue without wetting myself, so I'm best sitting where I can hold it in. It would be nice if women weren't expected to put up with that sort of discomfort and we were able to use the loo easily when we want to, like men are.

I posted earlier on this thread about my tactics when I go to the theatre. In fact, I was there last night. Partner and I had seats in pole position at the end of a row near to the toilets and I was up and in there before the safety curtain fell. When I emerged (from one of the two cubicles - this theatre which seats 500 people has one other women's toilet with all of three cubicles in it - I used that one for my 'arrival-at-theatre' wee) there was a significant queue.

Like many of our Victorian/Edwardian theatres, this one would struggle enormously to put in individual cubicles accessible to anyone who wanted to use them.

Just to add that the best theatre I've been to for women's toilets in the Lowry in Salford.

I think there's more things afoot here than just the need for more toilets. Even when both toilets are empty my DP will be in and out the gents in 1\3 of the time I am. He ain't faffing around with tights and needing to sit down to go, or sorting out San Pro.

We take more time let alone physically need more space.

I don’t think any of this means anything tbh. I was at a male centred event yesterday and was overjoyed seeing that the queue for the ladies was only 5 deep and that the queue for the men’s was at least 25 men in a long queue snaking around the room. However, women tend to take longer so the men were getting in and out as I was waiting. There was 5 cubicles in the ladies and 1 cubicle and 5 urinals in the mens.

I don’t think any of this means anything tbh

How do you read this thread and come to that conclusion? Surely your experience yesterday alone should lead you to the opposite conclusion?

I know people will mention period blood and fair enough but I think it's far slower to have sinks and mirrors - especially mirrors! - inside cubicles themselves. The person has finished with the toilet itself but is now spending time on handwashing then appearance whilst holding up the next person's use of the actual toilet. This is no good in places like theatres where you know you will always have large numbers of people needing the loo at the same time. The speediest design is to have the toilets, the sinks, and mirrors all separate from one another. And lots of bogs obviously.

Agree blind.

Using hand dryer is v time consuming well, and most of the all in one cubicles I've been in have had them.

Where space and often money are limited, it's just not practical in any way.