Why are people so afraid?

[Yambabe]

Really brought home to me this week. After the Martina thing not just peaking me but sort of chucking me off a cliff I have posted a couple of things on FB.

Ended with pretty much a 3-way convo, me, late 40s recently transitioned transwoman, father of a young transman, with occasional input from father of a young transwoman and concerned mother of pre-teen asd daughter.

It stayed respectful. Ideas went back and forth. TW friend posted same old same old mermaids/stonewall stuff, in support of self-id and medication pathway for kids. I refuted with links and stats, and asked questions which were ignored. The 2 parents of trans said some really thought-provoking and mainly gc stuff.

Thing is, throughout the whole 3 days my inbox didn't stop pinging. People saying how much they agreed with me, but couldn't say so openly because of the impact it could have on their lives or jobs. People looking at what had happened to Glinner, and particularly Robert Webb, and backing off.

How the hell did it get like this? Maybe more importantly how the hell do we let them know it's ok to have an opinion and be able to state what it is?

I am old and unimportant in the grand scheme of things but I have kids, and grandkids. Neices and nephews. How do I help make the world safe for them again?

Just wanted to say what a great post newtlover on page 1 had.

The comparison with the more extreme forms of trans ideology and PIE is often made, and I think that’s a good one, in terms of e.g. puberty blockers for GNC kids and males in female sports being eventually seen as glaringly wrong and the mass uptake of these ideas as quite baffling.

I believe this is inevitable, but what worries me is that unlike with PIE the current generation of young people is so thoroughly indoctrinated that it may take more than a lifetime for the inevitable to happen.

I should add that the reason I personally am afraid to speak up publicly is because I would lose my livelihood and the vast majority of my social group, including possibly my partner and my stepson. And that’s no exaggeration, as I’ve seen it happen to others in very similar circumstances - i.e. working in art and associating mostly with people who are artists or work in the art world.

Many people also have a trans-identifying person in their family and this can make it difficult to speak out under a real name.

Indeed, Mariotta . I’m not in this situation but I do have a few trans people in my immediate and extended social circle, and while I’m not extremely close to them I know that anything I said on this issue would be seen as an attack on them personally. Even if it were an option, which it’s not for the reasons I gave above, I would be scared to hurt them. Like most of us here, my issue is with the incoherence and misogyny of the ideology, not with trans people themselves.

Some of us have trans-identifying kids to be concerned about too. These AWA people have a moral compass straight out of Pirates of the Caribbean, and I have no doubt whatsoever they would be happy to put those children at risk. Us parents, not so much.

Gosh I appreciate how honest some of you are being but I think you've missed the point. I'm not berating you for not speaking out, not at all. I'm horrified that you are in the position where you feel you can't, horrified that fear of wrongspeak has such a grip on us all at the moment.

You're right that despite being the main earner in my household I won't lose my job for making my views known. But how do I help to turn the tide so others can speak without fear?

I speak out offline, to my friends.

Because of such ladylike behaviour as in this video streamable.com/p4xjo

I’m really not convinced that legally anyone could be sacked for voicing a GC opinion publically. Of course you could be sacked illegally.

Because a small group of people have been successful running guerrilla campaigns to silence feminists from speaking and running sabotage their career campaign from secret Facebook accounts.

And since "nonbinary" folks are overrepresented at social media companies, social media companies are letting them bully women.

This make politicians believe that there really is a large movement out there that people other than confused young or monetarily invested folks truly believe in.

Agree with blanketbox. I think the fear is stronger than the reality. As long as you don't advocate harm towards trans people or deny them a service how can expressing va mildly gender critical view cost someone their job.

Blanket box for those of us in Healthcare the risk is the accusation of bringing our employer and our profession into disrepute.

We risk losing our jobs, our reputations and our careers.

Slothslothsloth

my position is the same, all it takes is a few whispers and there would be no more opportunities or sales. In fact I think this has already happened, but it could be Brexit. There are no contracts, no security, and a rigid underlying orthodoxy. Everything is on the basis of being 'one of us' and it's never friendly to women's ideas unless they conform to comfortable roles.

I’m really not convinced that legally anyone could be sacked for voicing a GC opinion publically. Of course you could be sacked illegally.

YY. I think there is potentially a discrimination claim there. Especially if the opinion is to do with sex based rights.

Floral

Blanketbox there is also an intermediate position where employers can make it very clear that they don't like you and you won't be going anywhere else and they'd take it kindly if you'd start jobhunting. It's usually a good idea to do so in that position since you'd be out at the next reorganisation.
You choose not to retrain - whoever said this is clearly unaware of the cost of retraining, the difficulty of getting onto many professional courses (frequently requiring voluntary experience: who's paying for that then), and the difficulty of breaking into new professions at later times of life!

Right. I have been on this for years now. And yes, you may loose friends, and you may have questions asked.

I don't watch the TV.

You just have to be certain when people ask you WHAT YOU MEAN.

It's not so hard.

Tell them to fuck off.

It’s probably not legal to fire them for that, no. However, professions like teaching and academia can lead to people’s names being dragged through the press, petitions calling for sacking, being shunned and denounced by colleagues, and being disrespected by students/pupils. So whether you get fired or not, it sounds pretty hellish. Look at Rosa Freedman. She has never said anything phobic and in fact has advocated for trans rights in 3rd world but she has had piss thrown over her door and colleagues publicly calling her hateful. She seems very strong but many wouldn’t feel able to be.

Also if you have less than 2 years service then you have no claim for unfair dismissal. What is this magic profession that we should all retrain into to make our voices heard.

In social groups, families and workplaces across the country people do state the obvious to each other and it doesn't usually lead to the level of fallout that TRAs want us to think it will. Even in assumed 'woke' workplaces.
Also many trans people themselves are gender critical.
The social media companies are the reason for much of this silencing and fear. Their policies are anti-female and they permit harassment at scary levels.

I thought aid for tribunals had gone under austerity, and the unions are pro trans.

So how am I going to fight getting sacked for bringing the company into disrepute?

Don't bring your company into disrepute.
Speak carefully.
Speak offline.
Treat everyone with respect.
Virtually no-one you work for or with actually believes in gendered souls or that humans can change sex. People are self-censoring.

I don’t think GC views are as massively controversial as we think. I’ve discussed this with friends and family, who all feel surprisingly similar. When discussing it they all seemed a bit relieved, saying “I thought it was just me” (er, no, numerous polls show it’s a common view)
I think if you can explain your concerns clearly, the safeguarding of children and erosion of women’s rights, the GC argument is reasonable to most people.

I would guess many are in a similar position to me and possibly yipyap - self-employed and dependent on commissions/sales/contracts so reputation within the community absolutely crucial.

And for those who are employed, of course it is possible to be sacked for being GC! It clearly does happen to people who have said e.g. racist or homophobic things on social media, and these days even loosely gender critical views are seen as transphobia and bigotry of the most horrible type, just as bad as those things. And as stated by PP, even if you’re not actually sacked, your working environment can be made totally inhospitable.

I think if you don’t work in an environment where GC views would be a serious issue it’s hard to imagine the extent of the opposition to them in many organisations and communities.

Many companies have stipulations about social media behaviour - people can, and have, been sacked due to TRAs complaining about them.