From today, I'm turning the radio OFF when Woman's Hour comes on

[OrchidInTheSun]

I had such high hopes after their excellent series of interviews and discussions during their gender week although it's a shame they didn't invite a member of Woman's Place or Julia Long or Posie on to talk about why they fought so hard against the proposed changes to the GRA. But it seemed a step in the right direction. They were covering the conversations that women are having all over the country. And I wrote and thanked them.

But now it seems they are doing penance.

Just before Christmas, they featured Munroe Bergdorf - that well-known misogynist - sharing their views on what makes a perfect Christmas. Why? Why would women, who Bergdorf hates, care what makes their perfect Christmas?

And now they've invited that lovely homophobe ('gay men all want to be women') Juno Dawson onto the last Late Night Woman's Hour of 2018.

No doubt we can look forward to the Mermaids puff-piece that is Like a Girl, the story about the trans child where all the girls who notice that there is a child with a penis in their changing rooms are called out for being the horrid little bigots they are.

Jenni, Jane, I think you're both ace. But I wish you had the courage of your convictions. You no longer have my ear.

Who's joining me?

So, one thing about all this, which we need to watch for, is women being disenfranchised from the institutions which they love, which bring them together, which represent them and give them power.

If we let men make us hate the Guides, the Women’s Institute and women’s hour, what do we have left? And who is the poorer for it?

WorkingItOutAsIGo, this is what I'm concerned about too.

Women's Equality Party? Sorry, can't have meaningful webchat on MN because trans.

Women's March? MNers to boycott because trans.

Girl Guides, Women's Hour? Can't participate because trans.

Someone somewhere is enjoying this. I don't think it's women.

I reckon this is the penance that the BBC are forcing the programme to do for centring actual women in the debate. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.
Demanding that transgender women are not given publicity just plays into the hands of TRAs. Anyway, they always make themselves look foolish in the long run with their warped views and lack of empathy for women.

But if we don't call it out, then it reinforces the stance that we've been accepting trans women into our spaces happily since forever. It's legitimatising that false narrative and I'm not doing it any more. This show we got into this whole mess in the first place.

I would expect Women's Hour to cover the growing disenchantment with the main political parties in the run up to the local elections this May.

It's a big story when every single one of them prioritise the rights of men before women and girls. It would be great to hear Jane Garvey interviewing Dawn Butler, Penny Mordaunt, Jo Swinson, Sian Berry, the WEP and the Communist Party.

I suspect there is a battle raging between people like Jeni and Jane at WH and the 'inclusive' policies of the WokeFolk at BBC.

I'm not abandoning but am making my feelings known by emailing and twittering.

I think that's the right way, BoreofWhabylon.

Much better to challenge things than silently cede the ground without a shot fired every time trans issues appear.

I'm also sticking with the 'institutions' - where else will the pushback and balance come from?

Late night WH is hosted by Lauren Laverne I think. And Juno Dawson is in the Lauren Laverne/Sali Hughes/Caitlin Moran circle. Don't know why they put up with a homophobe when they seem to have a lot of close friends that are gay but there you go.

Monroe Bergdorf I cannot explain. Ever.

I agree. I'm not longer listening and have unfollowed them on Twitter.

I'm with you, Orchid. I just can't stand the inane position WH has taken on this. These people refused to come to the studio to talk about serious issues affecting women, and then they get invited to cosy chats - in a programme that is supposed to offer the female perspective.

Monroe Bergdorf's complaint about vagina-centric womens' marches was probably the main starting point of my questioning the whole trans ideology. I would welcome plenty of airtime for activists who can share their views with the world. As much as possible. Keep them talking!

I am always surprised that Caitlin Moran etc aren’t more focused on women. I was reading Juno Dawson’s thread last night, saying how mean the critics are..how they don’t want to debate.....🙄 lots of support, which i find baffling, as I don’t get why a transgender person who professes to understand women to the point of wanting to identify as one, can’t see why women might want a woman-only space. Every space we had has been colonised.

It's...educational to read some of Dawson's YA. I read Clean when I knew nothing about the author (including TG status) and nothing particularly about the transgender movement as a whole. As far as I knew I was reading a book by a female author (Juno being a Roman goddess), and I found myself wondering why a woman would be writing a teenager in the "breasting boobily" fashion a la middle aged men writing litfic. It is a brutal novel about drug abuse so I let it ride, thinking the author was going with as much visceral imagery as she could crowbar in.

Of course, months later it became clear.

Blimey. What age group is that aimed at ? Didnt Juno do a book with the children’s author Alex Smith ?

An awful lot of fetishism of teenage girlhood out there, what on earth is that about ? Top shop Travis et al.

It's that line that I've read several times to explain away the coquettish poses and ludicrous outfits of men who transition in middle age - that they didn't get to go that Japanese manga teenage girl phase that women apparently do so they're doing it now.

There is a pose that seems popular, with hands under chin a la Shirley Temple...

I would expect Women's Hour to cover the growing disenchantment with the main political parties in the run up to the local elections this May.

Again, very much agree with Pam

I'd like them to cover that too.

I'd also like them to cover: why the Big Lottery is diverting funds away from women and the elderly; how austerity is disproportionately affecting women; interview Karen Ingala-Smith about the Counting Dead Women project; talk to the women behind We Can't Consent To This about the Rough Sex Gone Wrong defence and do a big feature on the number of grass roots women's groups that have sprung up over the last few years. There's an enormous amount of gathering energy and it's awesome to be a part of it. A group discussion on that would be great

They got to where they are partly by whingeing and complaining about every tiny non existent complaint.

We have genuine complaints re the silencing of women, we should be going nowhere but standing firm and sending in complaints at every instance.

Vix you'll find that particular book on the 12+ bogof table in Waterstones (in my local branch, anyway). I personally would rate it 17+ and I'm not prudish about YA.

Twelve plus section? Good grief.
I went into Waterstones in Bath and they had the Alex Bertie book very prominently displayed at the start of the teen/older children. Grim.

I think the BBC is so wedded to the TWAW agenda they probably didn't have any choice. Their "diversity" policy means the definition of women has to be diverse too and include males identifying as women. As 2% of the BBC workforce are trans the BBC probably thinks being trans is far more common than it is and has a lot of people pushing a pro-trans agenda.
I won't be boycotting Woman's Hour, not that I listen to it live much as I'm at work, it's time slot is sexist although with iplayer they could argue timing is now irrelevant. I think they need our support. Having a hissy fit when they include males makes us as bad as the TRAs. I think sending supportive messages when they do articles supporting and centring women is more important than being negative when they centre males.

Sort of depends on the set up of the branch, but ours has picture books, middle grade and YA all in the same "room". Dawson's book sits alongside things like The Belles, The Extinction Trials, Hunger Games, Everless, etc - the sort of thing your bright Y6-7 will be starting to nosy at and 14yos aim for, it's all lumped together. I have noticed they keep the sexuality/identity/issues-type books tucked away on a bottom shelf.