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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

There will be a gender question in the 2021 census

35 replies

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 10:21

Also one on sexual orientation; but both voluntary, like religion. ONS had wanted them to be compulsory.

That might have produced some decent statistics...

Interesting though, as this officially equates gender ID with faith, not biology!

There will be a gender question in the 2021 census
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starcrossedseahorse · 18/12/2018 10:22

So the bio sex question will remain?

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/12/2018 10:24

How are you meant to answer it if you don't have a gender identity though?

Or if the concept is quite ephemeral to you?
When I have to assist people with low levels of English with this kind of question they don't know what to put whereas have no issue with 'sex-male/female'

pancaketosser · 18/12/2018 10:25

As a family history geek, I love filling in census forms. It's a shame I only get to do it every 10 years.

I do hope the box will be big enough to fully explain what my 'gender identity' is.

Last time I put myself as head of the household rather than DH. Small acts of rebellion!

ErrolTheDragon · 18/12/2018 10:43

How are you meant to answer it if you don't have a gender identity though?

It's optional, so presumably most people won't, though I suppose some may think they ought to fill it in and answer to indicate gender matching sex.

I wonder what choices there will be, or if it is free text.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/12/2018 10:46

I do hope the box will be big enough to fully explain what my 'gender identity' is.

I fear that might result in gender critical people who want to state their rejection of 'gender identity' being counted as people who think gender is important ie as a positive rather than a negative.

Doobigetta · 18/12/2018 11:09

If it’s optional, gender critical should show their contempt by not answering.

Doobigetta · 18/12/2018 11:09

Gender critical PEOPLE Hmm

Iused2BanOptimist · 18/12/2018 11:22

Also one on sexual orientation; but both voluntary, like religion. ONS had wanted them to be compulsory.

How could they make such questions compulsory? Hardly likely to get truthful responses from anyone who objects.

starcrossedseahorse · 18/12/2018 11:24

I imagine that some will lie on the bio sex question in any case because TWAW and all that.

Trinity1976 · 18/12/2018 13:12

If they outsource the contract to Lockheed Martin again like last time, I'll not be filling it in at all.

FestiveNut · 18/12/2018 13:14

I wonder if they will document all answers exactly. The Jedi knights were not counted last time.

HappyPunky · 18/12/2018 13:15

I'll probably put N/A to hopefully avoid looking like I agree to it

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 15:27

So the bio sex question will remain

Has the sex question been bio or was the guidance 'the sex someone felt themselves to be' for the last two census?

I can't find the guidance to check

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:16

I don’t know, but I imagine a Q worded like that would have raised millions of eyebrows in 2011, let alone 2001 Grin

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GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:19

2011
Male or female
(Of course! What else, in those days of sanity 🙄)

There will be a gender question in the 2021 census
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starcrossedseahorse · 18/12/2018 16:23

Ah the good old days.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 18/12/2018 16:24

I might enter "unicorn".

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:24

2001 also sane.

Imagine the training on the gender question for the poor monitors (or whatever they’re called - the ones who come round to help) this time...

There will be a gender question in the 2021 census
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FWRLurker · 18/12/2018 16:27

This seems fine to me. I've thought about including sex and gender separately on forms before. But I haven't done so out of fear of seeming transphobic (I work in academia so yeah...).

Ideally it would say
"What is your biological sex (male/female/intersex)"

"Do you consider yourself to have a gender identity independent of your biological sex (yes/no)?"

"If yes, what is your gender identity? __ "

I wonder though how the transgender women/men who believe that Trans women/men are biologically female/men will answer these two questions?

Say in the case of a transgender woman...

If they answer Bio sex Female -> Gender ID -> Female then the census will be inaccurate but it would be consistent with their beliefs.

If they answer Bio sex Male -> Gender ID -> Female then the census will accurately capture their transgender status (which would be good for them in terms of representation/statistics) but would I assume feel invalidating and "wrong" to them.

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 16:35

Yes the question is clear but what did the guidance notes say? Did those notes direct transgender people to answer as the sex they felt themselves to be?

During the evidence gathering for the Scottish census it was stated that the England and Wales guidance, for the last two census, had directed people to respond in a self identified way.

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 16:37

Why intersex FWRlurker? No one in UK has ever had intersex written on a birth certificate

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:56

Thingybob

Yes the question is clear but what did the guidance notes say? Did those notes direct transgender people to answer as the sex they felt themselves to be?

There don’t seem to be any guidance notes for the individual questions.

www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/census/censustransformationprogramme/consultations/the2021censusinitialviewoncontentforenglandandwales/2011censusquestionnaireenglandh1.pdf

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Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 18/12/2018 17:00

There's a god submission from a DSD (intersex) charity on the Scottish census bill. They are certainly not asking for a third option.
www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/109902.aspx

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 18/12/2018 17:01

Doh! good not god!

FestiveNut · 18/12/2018 17:03

I would imagine people would answer the male/female question according to what's now on their birth certificate (whether that's what was originally on it or not).